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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New bike this year and the six13 pro2 really cought my eye until... The pro frame only has a carbon downtube. Is there really a point to a carbon downtube? The r-5000 can be had for only $100 more and it has dura-ace vs ultegra. Will the downtube do much for the ride quality as a full carbon frame or does this fall along the lines of carbon seatstays where the prevaling opinion is they don't make a difference. The other bikes of interest are the tarmac and a tcr comp2 both full carbon.
 

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I liked the feel of the one carbon down tube vs a full carbon frame. I know thats not what I'm supposed to say around here but thats why I chose the Six13. I had a Caad7 and yes their was a difference between the full aluminum and one carbon tube as well. Is it worth the money for one carbon tube? That depends on how you feel about the quality difference and money, test ride them both

I have a Pro2 and my friend who rides a Look, Time and Cervelo rode it a few days ago and said it was a lot of bike for the buck, he really liked it and it was as stiff as any of his bikes and he felt as fast on it as he does on all his bikes with exception of his Look but said the Cannondale wasnt quit as forgiving as any of his bikes and thats maybe where the money difference comes into play, I dont know

I've rode them all and am not a Pro rider and to me I feel mine was at par with any of those

anyway, test rides is your answer
 

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collectorvelo said:
I would prefer Full Carbon Mono or Full aluminum or Full Steel or Full Ti
to anything glued together

just a personal opinion, but to be glued togehter means cheap
Yeah, those Colnage C50s are so damned cheap. And the Parlees too. And the Madones. Come to think of it, all CF frames, since the layers of CF are basically glued together.
 

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bwana said:
Yeah, those Colnage C50s are so damned cheap. And the Parlees too. And the Madones. Come to think of it, all CF frames, since the layers of CF are basically glued together.
Don't forget Crumpton, Spin.........man none of those guys know what they're doing. Why in the heck didn't they call Collectorvelo before they started selling such cheap bikes. Don't they know he is the Oracle of Material Science, the Encyclopedia Brittanica of frame construction, the Mr. Miyagi of bike technology? Jeez, just ask the guy: he knows better about everything!!!!!

We're so blessed to be able to bask in his glorious light.:rolleyes:
 

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I've not ridden the pro, but the team feels pretty stiff and almost like an aluminum bike. I really liked the feel of it, but it was definately not "plush". It was a bit smoother than the prior CAAD frames that will rattle your teeth out.

What type of riding will you be doing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
solo riding mostly. I currently ride an old cad3 team saeco replica. Any choice will be an upgrade. The short test rides I get to do really don't tell me there is much difference. What I'm questioning is if the carbon in the pro or even a full carbon frame will have any effect on how I feel after the ride. At 37 I might find it better to ride what is considered a smoother frame just so I can feel a little fresher after the ride. I'm not bothered while riding my cad3 as far as harshness during the ride goes but again I'm starting to see some signs of aging that present themselves after the ride. The roads I ride are smooth for the most part so can carbon help me in any regard.
 

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The best answer I could give to your question is that I don't know. That probably doesn't help much. Fit probably has a lot to do with how you feel after a ride, more so that the frame material.

I can tell you that there are a lot of false assumptions out there that carbon is smooth, steel smoother, Aluminum is harsh, etc. The layup and tube construction has a lot more to do with the ride than the material. Check out this link:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

My own personal experience has been that if you want a sporty racer with a plush ride, its hard to beat the Specialized Roubaix. Thats only an opinion, and you'll have to check it out yourself. But if that bike doesn't have you feeling better after a long ride, I don't know what will.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So according to Mr. Brown the six13 with the same geometry as the caad8 will provide the same ride quality. He does'nt seem to be into carbon that much but then again when did he write the article. I've read his articles extensively in the past and find his words quite knowledgable and sincere. I do agree with what he touched on about the seatpost as I have long legs and a lot of seatpost out of the frame. The Thompson I had prior to the EC70 on the bike now had no percieved flex. I can say I noticed a difference having a carbon post and I'm sure the people who don't probably have a lot less seatpost showing.
 

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My aging body has found that it likes a little taller head tube. Toward the end of the season I sometimes like a lower position. This I think (for me) is a more important feature than carbon this tube or that stay. Good Luck. Deciding on just one bike is a really tough decision. To many win-win choices.
 

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rounder said:
So according to Mr. Brown the six13 with the same geometry as the caad8 will provide the same ride quality. He does'nt seem to be into carbon that much but then again when did he write the article. I've read his articles extensively in the past and find his words quite knowledgable and sincere. I do agree with what he touched on about the seatpost as I have long legs and a lot of seatpost out of the frame. The Thompson I had prior to the EC70 on the bike now had no percieved flex. I can say I noticed a difference having a carbon post and I'm sure the people who don't probably have a lot less seatpost showing.
He is definately "old school". But I think he was pointing out the difference is in the tube shapes and layup, not just the geometry. The CAAD frame and Six13 may have same geometry, but tube shape/size/walls are different = different ride quality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
only difference in the frames is the carbon downtube. My short test rides tell me there is no difference in the bikes and to go for the 5000 with dura-ace vs. pro2 with ultegra in regards to which cannondale to narrow my choice down to. The Tarmac and TCR2 composite both have ultegra with the Tarmac being the winner in the spec department with better wheels and an all ultegra group. The Cannondales easily come out on top in value over both the specialized and giant. This is the tricky part though. Both the Cannondales ride so much better than my current caad3 that I could easily choose either of them. Yet over the course of the next few years will I be better served by going for a carbon bike in regards to the damping effects carbon has over aluminum. It's a hard choice to make. Posters have attested to the team version of the six13 riding smoother than their caad7 or 8 they traded up for but how about the pro version. Anybody own one that can say to me to get it and I won't be dissapointed and that the carbon downtube works. I guess if it did prove to be some benefit someone would have said so by now.
 

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rounder said:
only difference in the frames is the carbon downtube. My short test rides tell me there is no difference in the bikes and to go for the 5000 with dura-ace vs. pro2 with ultegra in regards to which cannondale to narrow my choice down to. The Tarmac and TCR2 composite both have ultegra with the Tarmac being the winner in the spec department with better wheels and an all ultegra group. The Cannondales easily come out on top in value over both the specialized and giant. This is the tricky part though. Both the Cannondales ride so much better than my current caad3 that I could easily choose either of them. Yet over the course of the next few years will I be better served by going for a carbon bike in regards to the damping effects carbon has over aluminum. It's a hard choice to make. Posters have attested to the team version of the six13 riding smoother than their caad7 or 8 they traded up for but how about the pro version. Anybody own one that can say to me to get it and I won't be dissapointed and that the carbon downtube works. I guess if it did prove to be some benefit someone would have said so by now.
Having some experience with both bikes I'd say the 5000 is the best bang for the buck. Ride quality is different but not significant IMO. The 5000 really is a great package deal. That being said I ended up with a Six13 but only because price wasn't an issue. If I had to pay for it myself right now I'd buy the 5000. FWIW the Six13 it is about to go on the market as I have the inside line on a different bike. If anyone wants a 56cm Six13 custom build (DA/Ult 10) PM me and get 1st crack before is goes in the classifieds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I find myself agreeing with you here. Talked to Cannondale and the six13 pro was built that way to get the price down. Buyer can say "look at my new six13" instead of caad8. The rep gave frame weights and the caad8 is 150 grams lighter than six13 pro and actually is lighter than the real six13 as well. She did say the carbon is designed to dampen and stiffen the frame as well. Like a caad8 really needs to be stiffer. So hey in reguards to cannondale $100 gets dura-ace instead of ultegra and a lighter frame to boot. Don't know the diffrent weights between the dura-ace vs. ultegra groups but I'm sure a good .5lb or more is saved going with the 5000 over the six13 pro. not bad for the cost difference.
 

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I currently ride and race a caad 7 and was in a position to upgrade to either the Caad 8 or Six13 Pro, I test rode each for half hour or so too see if I could justify the additional expense of the Six13 Pro. The answer was yes and I'm having a few tweaks made before picking up at the weekend. I found the Six13 pro to feel both stiffer and plusher that the Caad 8 and I liked the feel when sprinting, although I'll revert to the Caad 7 for crit racing.
In the back of my mind I think either go all aluminium or all carbon but even the Six13 only has one more carbon tube than the Pro, with the Caad 8 rear end.
Don't make choices on weight, do it on feel of the bike for the type of riding you do, if you need a few hours in the saddle, ask the dealer for it.
I can't wait to get racing mine and will post some pictures of the tricked article here soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I wouldn't base my new bike decision on the weight. Just pointing out the facts that were given to me . In this industry a half a pound of savings can typically be a very costly undertaking for those that wish to achieve that. I rode each bike for about 10 min. and just could not tell the difference. I also tested out a Tarmac and then at another LBS a TCR2 composite. To add to this I just rode a Trek 5200 and that bike actually felt like the best riding bike so far. Unfortunately Trek specs the bike with 25c tires instead of the 23c on the other bikes so I am pretty certain that was the difference I was able to feel. Both Cannondales have the most spirited feel of the bikes I rode. They just feel quicker than the carbon competition. 10 years ago this would have been an easy choice.
I would buy the Cannondale 5000. It's back to the LBS for some longer test rides of the two Cannondales. I have dropped the Specialized from my choice of bikes because it turns out that the Tarmac frame on the comp and expert is actually a sub par frame built of different labeled materials than their pro version. Kinda deceptive that they don't label the bike differently as it has a different frame.
 

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Oh REALLY? How many Looks have you heard of that have come "unglued"? (Or Six13's for that matter?)You have any scientific backing for this? Get a little information to back up your statements.
 

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full carbon R3

I have a Lemond Buenos Aires all steel frame. It is a buttery smooth ride that is beautiful for long recreational rides. I have been in the hunt for a carbon upgrade. My desires were to get the bottom bracket rigidity often associated with carbon frames for climbs and sprints, benefit from the lighter nature of carbon frames, and hopefully pay no price for the stiffness inherent in carbon and needed in certain areas of the frame.

I demoed the Look 585 and Cervelo 2.5, both of which have lugged carbon frame design. They were different, though had similar restrictions. They both were good to very good at climbing and quick acceleration. The R2.5 was a bit smoother of a ride, as I found the Look to be very harsh. Kind of what I surmised most of the high performance carbon bikes to be: frames that offer a premium in performance and are relatively unconcerned about the comfort sacrifice. If I were a professional rider, I assume I would make a similar concession. I am not. Another odd similarity amongst them which I do not experience in my LeMond was the loosey-goosey feel of the down tube when moving the handlebars side by side or climbing.

Then I demoed the Cervelo R3. Wow. Phenomenally rigid in the bottom bracket, very stable in the down tube, super light, and best of all remarkably comfortable. If I was to give my all steel LeMond a 9 for ride comfort, I would give the R3 an 8. (by the way I would give the Look 585 a 4 and R2.5 a 5, maybe 6). All this on an under 2lb bike. Though I have not riden a solid monoque frame like the Pinarello F:13, Trek, Scott, or other, structurally, I doubt they would match the comfort or structural strength or rigidity. The only concession is for a likely aerodynamic sacrifice, though this would likely only apply to me on flat long races. Won't be doing those any time soon.

There have been a lot of frame material variations plunked on the market in the last 5 years. This one is a difference maker.
 
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