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small puncture (about 1/8”) on tire tread .. applying patch question

1554 Views 32 Replies 7 Participants Last post by cxwrench, 15 d ago

zero7404

Discussion Starter · 1 mo ago

have 2 small punctures thru a road tire where each puncture is less than 1/8” in length. i put a new tube on and reused the tire there is no bulging or waviness in the area of the slits but one of them is just offset from the center tread closer towards the side wall. the 2 small punctures are about 1/2 inch from eachother, one is close to center of tread, the other is offset towards the wall.

it looks like the casing of the tire in the area is still intact.

the tire is a bontrager hard-case, 700C 32mm.

i am wondering if there is a permanent patch or something similar that could be used or would be good to add to the inside of the tire ? one reason is to keep any foreign debris/objects from getting in to where they can rub on the tube.

at first i thought the park tb-2 tire boot might be what i was looking for but not sure.

maybe folks just throw away the tire/replace but i dont want to do that considering it has just a few hundred miles and plenty of life in it i have already gone for a ride @about 90 psi with it and havent noticed any anomalies yet

any recommendations ?

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tlg

· #2 · 1 mo ago

I wouldn't sweat it. Not on a bontrager hard-case.

A tire boot is overkill for a small puncture. Use a simple tube patch (inside) for some extra protection if you're concerned. It won't hurt anything.

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Reactions: 1

ogre

· #3 · 1 mo ago

Just ride it. For overkill you could dab some superglue in the tire punctures.

zero7404

Discussion Starter · #4 · 1 mo ago

ogre said:
Just ride it. For overkill you could dab some superglue in the tire punctures.

wouldn't superglue harden the rubber in the area its applied ?

i stuck on a park tool adhesive-backed patch for tubes yesterday. will take off the tire to check if it's still stuck on where i applied it. it's pretty thin compared to the tb-2 boot i mentioned, so if it stays on then it should be enough to keep contaminants from getting in during riding where the tire flexes.

maybe some other kind of rubber-based glue may be good to apply to the outside, just to stick down the tiny edge of the outside casing that can be pulled up. something like shoe glue i am thinking but probably something that's suited better for this application ...

Kerry Irons

· #5 · 1 mo ago

zero7404 said:
wouldn't superglue harden the rubber in the area its applied ?

i stuck on a park tool adhesive-backed patch for tubes yesterday. will take off the tire to check if it's still stuck on where i applied it. it's pretty thin compared to the tb-2 boot i mentioned, so if it stays on then it should be enough to keep contaminants from getting in during riding where the tire flexes.

maybe some other kind of rubber-based glue may be good to apply to the outside, just to stick down the tiny edge of the outside casing that can be pulled up. something like shoe glue i am thinking but probably something that's suited better for this application ...

If the casing is not deformed, then there's nothing needs doing. If there is a slight casing deformation, you could boot the tire by gluing a double layer of Tyvek (material in overnight mail envelopes) on the inside. The idea of superglue is to close the cut so the casing is not exposed, but it is of limited value. A slight casing deformation will mean the tire wears a bit faster at that point, but it's not likely a significant issue.

Reactions: 1

zero7404

Discussion Starter · #6 · 27 d ago

put on some new to market tpu tubes

not interested in fractions of watts, or fractions of lower rolling resistance they say are afforded by the material. that data didn't really attract me to the tubes in the first place.

i do endurance loops for 20-40 miles and the landscapes i ride around have a lot of grades. no where near flat. long-ish rides, unavoidable debris on some roads … need something that is more puncture resistant than butyl

with my outgoing tubes standard butyl up front thorn resistant butyl out back - did fine on most of my rides. maybe with tpu might notice an improvement, will see.

the main selling point for me - tpu is really tough compared to butyl. i took a .7 mechanical pencil tip to some sample material used as a rubber band for the tubes … would not pierce it and the material didnt even show a mark where i applied pressure. the same test on a butyl sample and the wall was pierced.

side benefit of the swap is that the ride weight is lower by 1 to 1-1/4 pounds which doesn't hurt anything.

in context here, my choice is to pay a little more per tube and wind up on the side of the road with a flat less often or not at all. so it’s worth the extra cost in that regard and if they ever do puncture, they can be patched.

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Kerry Irons

· #7 · 27 d ago

zero7404 said:
i took a .7 mechanical pencil tip to some sample material used as a rubber band for the tubes … would not pierce it and the material didnt even show a mark where i applied pressure. the same test on a butyl sample and the wall was pierced.

Quite possibly not a relevant test compared to the real world conditions of fine wire (from degraded steel belted tires), shards of glass and broken quartzite rocks, etc. If you look at ASTM testing procedures, you will see very different results from sharp objects vs. something like a pencil lead.

zero7404

Discussion Starter · #8 · 27 d ago (Edited)

so would you say that latex and tpu are not better than butyl, based on the testing you cited ?

i was referring to the metal tip of the mechanical pencil, not the lead.

i wanted to give them a spin, see how they hold up
i will also try a sewing pin to see how the sample does

Kerry Irons

· #9 · 25 d ago

zero7404 said:
so would you say that latex and tpu are not better than butyl, based on the testing you cited ?

i was referring to the metal tip of the mechanical pencil, not the lead.

i wanted to give them a spin, see how they hold up
i will also try a sewing pin to see how the sample does

I have no data on TPU or latex tube puncture resistance vs. butyl. My point is that rigorous testing can give a more accurate result compared to "DIY" testing using whatever comes to hand. Over the years many claims have been made about improved puncture resistance of latex tubes based on doing things pretty similar to what you did, but I have never seen controlled testing with standardized equipment.

tlg

· #10 · 25 d ago

Kerry Irons said:
I have no data on TPU or latex tube puncture resistance vs. butyl. My point is that rigorous testing can give a more accurate result compared to "DIY" testing using whatever comes to hand. Over the years many claims have been made about improved puncture resistance of latex tubes based on doing things pretty similar to what you did, but I have never seen controlled testing with standardized equipment.

I've spent some time searching for testing on TPU puncture resistance. I couldn't find anything.
Lot's of claims about them being more puncture resistant. Maybe it's true. But I've found nothing to support it.
I've seen a bunch of videos about patching TPU tubes. So apparently not the panacea of puncture resistance.

zero7404

Discussion Starter · #11 · 25 d ago

Kerry Irons said:
I have no data on TPU or latex tube puncture resistance vs. butyl. My point is that rigorous testing can give a more accurate result compared to "DIY" testing using whatever comes to hand. Over the years many claims have been made about improved puncture resistance of latex tubes based on doing things pretty similar to what you did, but I have never seen controlled testing with standardized equipment.

one would think that someone has or is doing more scientific testing … compared to what i did

i’m not christening tpu material based on my at-home ‘highly’ controlled ‘lab’ test …

but my results do inspire some confidence over buytl.

no one steps up to try them out and everyone sits in the sidelines waiting for people’s opinions to flow down …

i’m not an earth-environmental nut, though in this video there is some data thrown in there about what it takes to make butyl tubes today.

zero7404

Discussion Starter · #12 · 25 d ago

for me, i see some benefits to tpu aside from the environmental benefit that run parallel to tubeless:

you can use lower pressures if you want, less concern with pinch flats as with tubeless

tube is so thin, feels like you’re on tubeless to begin with

not much friction going on inside the wheel/tire especially when compared with the coefficients of friction and elasticity that are characteristic of buytl - which are absent with tpu

you will not get sealant all over your ride buddies if you happen to rip your tire open

so the $10 more per tube i paid i think are worth it in these regards.

just caution folks when installing them to follow recommended install notes from the brand they chose.

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Kerry Irons

· #13 · 23 d ago

zero7404 said:
for me, i see some benefits to tpu aside from the environmental benefit that run parallel to tubeless:

you can use lower pressures if you want, less concern with pinch flats as with tubeless

tube is so thin, feels like you’re on tubeless to begin with

not much friction going on inside the wheel/tire especially when compared with the coefficients of friction and elasticity that are characteristic of buytl - which are absent with tpu

you will not get sealant all over your ride buddies if you happen to rip your tire open

so the $10 more per tube i paid i think are worth it in these regards.

just caution folks when installing them to follow recommended install notes from the brand they chose.

Here's your challenge. TPU tubes have been around for decades, and latex tubes have been around for many more decades. The perceived benefits you tout have always been there, and yet these products remain a TINY fraction of the market. Why do you think that is? Could it be that, at the margin, these "benefits are either so minor as to be imperceptible to the rider or in fact non-existent? Just asking.

zero7404

Discussion Starter · #14 · 23 d ago

im sure each material has its benefits/drawbacks and followers that on pain of death swear by them …

when the tire industry developed tubeless tires, i’m sure there was pushback from those that were used to tubes or saw the drawbacks of no tubes. today there are no cars sold that use tubes.

its an evolution, not a revolution like airless wheels/tires.
the masses buy in when they can digest the cost delta for new tech — or the cost to mass produce goes down to some tolerable level.

another guess is that the big names are slow to adopt for many reasons. and if there isn’t a big name behind a new technology - people won’t buy it … yet.

i cant really speak volumes to my experience yet with tpu, have only ridden about 50 miles on them.
what i can say is they hold air just like butyl (a little better), and pressure is very stable during a ride.

cost difference, i think is relative …
i dont think even the most expensive tube you can buy today will break anyone’s wallet … so i am experimenting with them to see how they do over time. puncture resistance is what i care about.

so why not ?

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Kerry Irons

· #15 · 21 d ago

zero7404 said:
im sure each material has its benefits/drawbacks and followers that on pain of death swear by them …

when the tire industry developed tubeless tires, i’m sure there was pushback from those that were used to tubes or saw the drawbacks of no tubes. today there are no cars sold that use tubes.

its an evolution, not a revolution like airless wheels/tires.
the masses buy in when they can digest the cost delta for new tech — or the cost to mass produce goes down to some tolerable level.

another guess is that the big names are slow to adopt for many reasons. and if there isn’t a big name behind a new technology - people won’t buy it … yet.

i cant really speak volumes to my experience yet with tpu, have only ridden about 50 miles on them.
what i can say is they hold air just like butyl (a little better), and pressure is very stable during a ride.

cost difference, i think is relative …
i dont think even the most expensive tube you can buy today will break anyone’s wallet … so i am experimenting with them to see how they do over time. puncture resistance is what i care about.

so why not ?

Again, the market has spoken. The question you need to answer (and not based on supposition) is why.

zero7404

Discussion Starter · #16 · 21 d ago

dont have an answer to all that.

but do like the tpu inner tubes so far, they work.

i went with Tannus’ Dubied tubes. They have a metal presta stem, none of that valve core glued-in to plastic stuff that Tubolito has. so i unscrew the cores, install my tyrewiz.

interestingly, the markings on the tubes themselves say Swiss Made.

zero7404

Discussion Starter · #17 · 21 d ago

for a few small superficial cuts on my tire casing … would the same kind of glue thats used for tubular work to fill the small cuts ?

tire internals are intact, no bubbling or bulging.

locally, i could pickup loctite shoe glue or slime rubber cement, if that also works …

i have superglue, but dont want to use the stuff on rubber

velodog

· #18 · 21 d ago

zero7404 said:
for a few small superficial cuts on my tire casing … would the same kind of glue thats used for tubular work to fill the small cuts ?

tire internals are intact, no bubbling or bulging.

locally, i could pickup loctite shoe glue or slime rubber cement, if that also works …

i have superglue, but dont want to use the stuff on rubber

What's a superficial cut, nicks in the tread rubber or are ya looking at cord? Personally, I don't much concern myself with nicks in the rubber.

tlg

· #19 · 21 d ago

velodog said:
What's a superficial cut, nicks in the tread rubber or are ya looking at cord? Personally, I don't much concern myself with nicks in the rubber.

This.
10's and 10's and 10's of thousands of miles. I've never once glued a cut or nick. They're not an issue.
If it's not down to the cords, don't worry about it. If it's down to or through the cords, replace the tire.

About the only thing I'd do is for a deep cut in the tread, on a new tire, put a glue on patch inside the tire.
If it's in the sidewall, replace the tire.

Superglue? Forget it. It dries hard and brittle. It'll never hold on flexing rubber.

Reactions: 1

zero7404

Discussion Starter · #20 · 21 d ago

a 1/8 inch part of the outer casing is flapping, hanging on. it's not that large a gash but the reinforcement/weaving in the tire is visible. not pierced thru to the inside.

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