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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all,
Looking for some advice here. I'm doing the trainerroad plan and just finished the sweet spot base medium #2 (if that makes any sense). Today I did my 8' ftp test starting the build phase and crushed the first 8' test, but popped hard on the second.

I hit the first 8' set hard with a np of 302, but the second I wasn't recovered for and had to stop multiple times. As a result my np on the second was 254. It suggests an average of both sets, which would result in a significant reduction in FTP (from 253 to 242).

Should I take the first set as my ftp for the second phase of training or retest?

thanks for advice
 

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Does it specify NP? NP is not regarded as a reliable metric under @ 20 minutes. For an 8 minute test you should probably use AP.

What power were you targeting for your Sweet Spot intervals? Your FTP target should be a little higher than your longer Sweet Spot intervals.

I would retest and temper your first interval of the set so that you don't blow up during the second interval.

Hey all,
Looking for some advice here. I'm doing the trainerroad plan and just finished the sweet spot base medium #2 (if that makes any sense). Today I did my 8' ftp test starting the build phase and crushed the first 8' test, but popped hard on the second.

I hit the first 8' set hard with a np of 302, but the second I wasn't recovered for and had to stop multiple times. As a result my np on the second was 254. It suggests an average of both sets, which would result in a significant reduction in FTP (from 253 to 242).

Should I take the first set as my ftp for the second phase of training or retest?

thanks for advice
 

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Testing is training. Training is testing.

Don't be afraid to retest if needed, albeit, wait a day or two so make sure you have fresh legs.

Also, are you sure they ask for NP for 8 mins vs AP?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Colorfulness Line Font Azure Parallel

here we go. lol. took me for freaking ever to capture this.

The giveaway was in the valley between the 8' sets I ramped up a little, you can see the yellow peak (power), and my heart rate went straight into zone 4 (red line).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'd test again, but it sets me back a week in the training plan. Maybe just re-do the first week of base? What about taking the average of my previous ftp (253) with the average from that first interval (302), which would put me at 278. As I write that it becomes clear this makes no sense.

Hmmm, sounds like arai and dream are right... need to retest. I really distain ftp tests. Practice makes perfect I guess ;)
 

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It does seem like you could have paced yourself much better in the 2nd interval but in the end, if you had a hard time doing that, maybe your estimated FTP of 251 w is a good starting point for you. You can use it to continue your training program and as time goes by you'll know if that value is accurate or not and may need to re-adjust mid-way. That's not a bad thing BTW.
 

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8 mins is not an FTP test, that's a VO2 max test. 2x8 mins with an average is not an FTP test. That's just...ridiculous. And trying to base FTP off a one-off vo2 max effort is going to lead you to a dark place of misery and failure in future training.

Anyway, with that said, testing anything is a skill in and of itself.

2x8 mins hard should not wipe you out. Go do it again tomorrow and pace that thing a lot better. Don't try to "blow out" anything until the last one minute or so of the last effort.
 

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Trainer Roads own description says that the 20 minute test is preferable for less experienced users. And for the exact reasons the OP struggled (you are more likely to pace yourself over a longer more steady effort).

For the OP, I'd suggest resting for a day or two until you feel fresh, then re-test using the 20 minute test. I think the result of this test is going to be more useful for you.

Take a read here.
20-Minute vs 8-Minute FTP Test ? TrainerRoad
 

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8 mins is not an FTP test, that's a VO2 max test. 2x8 mins with an average is not an FTP test. That's just...ridiculous...
This was my first reaction, until I read the TrainerRoad page were they want the average of both test, then multiplying that average by .90 to derive FTP

Effort 1: 304
Effort 2: 243
Avg: 273.5

273.5 x .90 = 246w estimate FTP
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for the help all. I'm not going to retest, but I did learn something valuable about pacing myself. Going forward I'll use the 20' test as I can better judge based on that. I'm going to stick with my current and adjust +/- 5% over the next few weeks.

Much appreciated all!
 

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This was my first reaction, until I read the TrainerRoad page were they want the average of both test, then multiplying that average by .90 to derive FTP

Effort 1: 304
Effort 2: 243
Avg: 273.5

273.5 x .90 = 246w estimate FTP
8 minutes is the test method CTS uses as well - it's harder to stay focused for 20 minutes than 8. You are supposed to use the higher of the two results to approximate your FTP according to CTS I believe. Either way it's an approximation, accuracy is dependent on how well you execute it. Neither of your two attempts look great, but should work well enough for setting up training zones to start with.

CTS Field Test: Why two 8-minute efforts instead of one 20-minute effort? - CTS
 

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Just my opinion but, personally, I'd redo the test. Set your zones wrong and you're not maximizing your training.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
 

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8 minutes is the test method CTS uses as well - it's harder to stay focused for 20 minutes than 8. You are supposed to use the higher of the two results to approximate your FTP according to CTS I believe. Either way it's an approximation, accuracy is dependent on how well you execute it. Neither of your two attempts look great, but should work well enough for setting up training zones to start with.

CTS Field Test: Why two 8-minute efforts instead of one 20-minute effort? - CTS
He's not using CTS, and the 8 min CTS test is not an FTP test.
 

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aw cmon dude a 20 min legit FTP test is hard? I do this once a week, just so I can gain mental toughness if not actual wattage. Don't underestimate mental toughness, it doesn't show up on FTP test, but it's good stuff!
 

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This was my first reaction, until I read the TrainerRoad page were they want the average of both test, then multiplying that average by .90 to derive FTP

Effort 1: 304
Effort 2: 243
Avg: 273.5

273.5 x .90 = 246w estimate FTP
But then you're just back to taking a fairly arbitrary percentage of an average of two vo2 max efforts.

Doesn't really matter what they call it. It matching up to a 45-60 min all out effort (or whatever ftp is being defined as today) would be pretty coincidental at best.

But even more silly is just making up a brand new protocol where you blow yourself up and just decide to take that number! :eek:
 

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aw cmon dude a 20 min legit FTP test is hard? I do this once a week, just so I can gain mental toughness if not actual wattage. Don't underestimate mental toughness, it doesn't show up on FTP test, but it's good stuff!
Seriously. Exactly why I wrote he should just do it again the next day. Will probably be better as he's more primed and opened up.

16 mins is... well, this is a silly conversation at this point.
 

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I agree with doing it again in a little bit. It's not going to set back the season. It's December.

I usually don't test my FTP until around when I start HIIT. I typically need a 30 min warmup and a ~10 minute cool down. To do well (indoors), I need to be pissed off. I can't seem to do well without being angry.
 
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