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Re: the recent discussion about Tom Brady's future, the Patriots sent Matt Cassel to the Chiefs, so clearly they feel Brady is going to be fine. The weirdness is that they only got a second-round draft choice for him. Second round? Wasn't Cassel their franchise player?
 

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Lemur-ing
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That does seem very weird indeed. I mean, they practically franchised him for nothing it seems now.

I wouldn't talk too much if they got a first round pick but like you said, 2nd round? Well, if Cassel is indeed happy with his trade and the terms, then it does seem like somebody is rather under appreciating his value. Just what I think.
 

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Lemur-ing
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Oh yeah, and they got Vrabel too. That second round pick does seem under valued IMHO.
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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Yea......the pick was weird.

The league &/or The Pats knew something about cassel we don't.

I think this trade, while it seems to indicate confidence in brady, says more about Cassel's capability than anything.

Pretty illuminating.

Len
 

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Game on, b*tches!
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+ Vrabel. Had me wondering, too. Maybe Cassel was programmed by Belichick to asplode in 6 months?
 

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Lemur-ing
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Ok, I may understand why the Chiefs didn't want to give out a 3rd overall pick, given that they downright need it.

and, they needed a QB. They got a great player in Cassel - proven and most certainly a starter vs. any rookie in the draft this year. At least, he has done it in the NFL and he's also used to a 3 receiver setup, the same setup the Chiefs use.

Now, Vrabel, yes, they need someone like him. Why the Pats gave him, I have no idea. Maybe they wanted to free up $14.5m plus whatever Vrabel was earning so as to bring in a couple of other players.

But, I just can't understand how the Pats didn't at least get a 4th round pick in addition too. Really intriguing indeed.
 

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2 busy workin' 2 hang out
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uzziefly said:
Ok, I may understand why the Chiefs didn't want to give out a 3rd overall pick, given that they downright need it.

and, they needed a QB. They got a great player in Cassel - proven and most certainly a starter vs. any rookie in the draft this year. At least, he has done it in the NFL and he's also used to a 3 receiver setup, the same setup the Chiefs use.

Now, Vrabel, yes, they need someone like him. Why the Pats gave him, I have no idea. Maybe they wanted to free up $14.5m plus whatever Vrabel was earning so as to bring in a couple of other players.

But, I just can't understand how the Pats didn't at least get a 4th round pick in addition too. Really intriguing indeed.
Cassel isn't a proven great player, he had one year on a great team. Plenty of QBs do that and then quickly fall back to ground. Vrabel is going downhill quickly plus 2nd round picks are great these days as you can get a very good player but not pay him 1st round money. I would have thought they would have gotten a 7th or 6th round pick as well but obviously the league didn't trust Cassel at this point (and I wouldn't either, he didn't play in college either).
 

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Lemur-ing
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Henry Porter said:
Cassel isn't a proven great player, he had one year on a great team. Plenty of QBs do that and then quickly fall back to ground. Vrabel is going downhill quickly plus 2nd round picks are great these days as you can get a very good player but not pay him 1st round money. I would have thought they would have gotten a 7th or 6th round pick as well but obviously the league didn't trust Cassel at this point (and I wouldn't either, he didn't play in college either).
Hmm. Valid points. I don't get what you mean by the league doesn't trust Cassel though. I thought the Chiefs ad Pats were the ones who decided who got what/whom?

I say Cassel is great because well, unlike the draft class for this year, he has at least proven to be able to handle the pressure for a high profile team such as the Pats. Plus, he's used to the 3 receiver set that the Chiefs also use IIRC. That makes the learning curve even smaller and allows him to be able to settle in even quicker.


Compared to say, Mark Sanchez etc, they would have to get used to the rigors of the NFL, the physicality of it and let's not forget that a Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco aren't people who come around every year at all.

So in that, I say they got a great player.

Will he do well there? Who knows. But, at least he has shown that he can do something good so that's a nice start.

Vrabel - well, I still think he is pretty good though.

I'd have thought maybe a 4th or 5th round pick in addition to the 2nd round pick would be fairer.
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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uzziefly said:
Hmm. Valid points. I don't get what you mean by the league doesn't trust Cassel though. I thought the Chiefs ad Pats were the ones who decided who got what/whom?

I say Cassel is great because well, unlike the draft class for this year, he has at least proven to be able to handle the pressure for a high profile team such as the Pats. Plus, he's used to the 3 receiver set that the Chiefs also use IIRC. That makes the learning curve even smaller and allows him to be able to settle in even quicker.


Compared to say, Mark Sanchez etc, they would have to get used to the rigors of the NFL, the physicality of it and let's not forget that a Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco aren't people who come around every year at all.

So in that, I say they got a great player.

Will he do well there? Who knows. But, at least he has shown that he can do something good so that's a nice start.

Vrabel - well, I still think he is pretty good though.

I'd have thought maybe a 4th or 5th round pick in addition to the 2nd round pick would be fairer.
Rules:

The salary level offer by a player's old club determines what type of franchise player he is.

• An "exclusive" franchise player -- not free to sign with another club -- is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of April 16, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.
• If the player is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries of last season at his position, or 120 percent of the player’s previous year’s salary, he becomes a “non-exclusive” franchise player and can negotiate with other clubs. His old club can match a new club's offer, or receive two first-round draft choices if it decides not to match. The signing period for non-exclusive franchise players to sign with new clubs is March 3 through November 9 (10th week of the season).
• A transition player has received a minimum offer of the average of the top 10 salaries of last season at the player's position or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. • A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation. Transition players can be signed from March 3 through July 22."

It's pretty obvious that the PATS threw the franchise tag on Cassel hoping someone else would sign him so they would get the picks.........the rest of the league didn't, so NE either had to pay him a fortune or trade him for whatever they could get. They got well, not much if Cassell is a starting QB in this league. & it clearly was the best they could get....which means the other teams in the league don't value Cassel that much.

Len
 

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Lemur-ing
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Len J said:
Rules:

The salary level offer by a player's old club determines what type of franchise player he is.

• An "exclusive" franchise player -- not free to sign with another club -- is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of April 16, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.
• If the player is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries of last season at his position, or 120 percent of the player’s previous year’s salary, he becomes a “non-exclusive” franchise player and can negotiate with other clubs. His old club can match a new club's offer, or receive two first-round draft choices if it decides not to match. The signing period for non-exclusive franchise players to sign with new clubs is March 3 through November 9 (10th week of the season).
• A transition player has received a minimum offer of the average of the top 10 salaries of last season at the player's position or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. • A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation. Transition players can be signed from March 3 through July 22."

It's pretty obvious that the PATS threw the franchise tag on Cassel hoping someone else would sign him so they would get the picks.........the rest of the league didn't, so NE either had to pay him a fortune or trade him for whatever they could get. They got well, not much if Cassell is a starting QB in this league. & it clearly was the best they could get....which means the other teams in the league don't value Cassel that much.

Len
Cool, thanks for the info.

2 first round picks? How is that, given that each team only as one first round pick of their own?

But, it's also stated (sure, it's just news so who knows) that other teams (2 others from what I recall from NFL.com) were interested in Cassel. I assume they were not interested enough to let the Pats feel certain they would be able to get the picks instead of matching the other teams' offers perhaps.
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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uzziefly said:
Cool, thanks for the info.

2 first round picks? How is that, given that each team only as one first round pick of their own?

But, it's also stated (sure, it's just news so who knows) that other teams (2 others from what I recall from NFL.com) were interested in Cassel. I assume they were not interested enough to let the Pats feel certain they would be able to get the picks instead of matching the other teams' offers perhaps.
It's the first round pick for the next 2 years.

len
 

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Jerkhard Sirdribbledick
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mohair_chair said:
Re: the recent discussion about Tom Brady's future, the Patriots sent Matt Cassel to the Chiefs, so clearly they feel Brady is going to be fine. The weirdness is that they only got a second-round draft choice for him. Second round? Wasn't Cassel their franchise player?
The only thing that surprised me (besides the low trade value for him and Vrabel) was that they didn't wait to see how effective Brady would be. I guess they're not concerned.

That's the thing about that organization ... they're competent enough that you can usually trust their decisions and assume they know something you don't (think letting Lawyer Milloy go).

They also signed Fred Taylor; I just wish they would make some moves on defense. Their linebackers are old and their secondary needs some help, too.
 

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2 busy workin' 2 hang out
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DrRoebuck said:
The only thing that surprised me (besides the low trade value for him and Vrabel) was that they didn't wait to see how effective Brady would be. I guess they're not concerned.

That's the thing about that organization ... they're competent enough that you can usually trust their decisions and assume they know something you don't (think letting Lawyer Milloy go).

They also signed Fred Taylor; I just wish they would make some moves on defense. Their linebackers are old and their secondary needs some help, too.
They'll probably draft the defense.
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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Henry Porter said:
They'll probably draft the defense.
In that crap division, they hardly need defense. :D

Len
 

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Low rep power
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Gonna be interesting to see what happens when camp opens...
 

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your text here
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the franchise tag was to up the value of cassel. Don't the chiefs have one of the pats former big wigs now? that is probably why they could only get the picks they got. He knows cassel can work, but still needs to mature. A lot. And a lot depends on the qb coach and offensive coordinator. The chiefs needed something under center almost worse than the bears, Detroit, and the raiders, but cassel is still not NOW. He needs at least 8 games before you can tell, and even then...

Vrabel was thrown in as the "now" portion of the deal. His body is running on borrowed time. he probably only has 2 years left, and that doesn't include the injury I am certain he will get.

BB knows how to scout talent, both in-house and out. He sees a need that a college prospect he likes can fill.

Vrabel was thrown
 

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Game on, b*tches!
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Isn't it interesting that 2 of the most successful organizations in the past decade (Pats, Steelers, and to some extent, the Colts)) rarely throw out a ton of $$ on free agents (Randy Moss excluded)? Even tho I can't stand Belichick or the Pats they seem to know how to put a good team together.
 

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Pedal Master
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As a Chiefs fan (in KC), I'm affraid Cassel will be on his back more than Jenna Jameson unless we secure our O-Line pronto! Both are great aquisitions for the Chiefs, but these guys still need a lot of help.
 

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Game on, b*tches!
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real stonie said:
As a Chiefs fan (in KC), I'm affraid Cassel will be on his back more than Jenna Jameson for the Chiefs
ORLY?
That ain't a lot. Jenna is more "creative" than the old missionary position. Or so I've been told:ihih: :blush2:
 

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They let Vrabel go because they are looking to get younger.
The Patriots now own four picks in the first two rounds - their first-round pick (No. 23); KC's second-rounder (No. 34); San Diego's second-rounder, acquired at last year's draft (No. 47); and their second-rounder (No. 58). I suspect these picks will all be spent on defensive players.
 
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