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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Everyone,

I was wondering something. It seems a common thing is to continually drop stem spacers as one gets more flexible to eventually be "slammed". However, I see a lot of recreational but serious cyclist that are at or slightly below a 45 degree torso angle with all spacers under the stem while on the hoods. So what I wonder is, if they remove those spacers... wouldn't they start going below this 45 degree angle? Talking more race geometry here too; not endurance frames.

And I don't think it's a sizing matter. Because if a bike is too big, it has a higher stack yet longer reach. Or if it's too small it has a shorter reach but shorter stack.... both bikes leading to more overall reach which will pull that torso angle down.

So I'm assuming the more aggressive positions with slammed stems and big saddle-to-bar-drop have the rider at lower than 45 degrees while on the hoods?
 

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Just be as aero as possible while being comfortable.

Have to be comfortable, that's mandatory.

I wouldn't worry about what anyone else is doing, worry about what's comfortable for you.

I personally ride very "aggressively" in both position and bike setup, but it's about comfort more than anything. It's about what fits and works best with zero issues.
 

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I seriously can't visualize what you are trying to convey.

Just as MMsRepsBike wrote comfort is key. The very small slice of riders you have encountered may be a poor representation of proper bike sizing and proper bike fit (individually).
 

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Seems like it would depend on rider biomechanics as well. I'm tall and have long legs so I have a lot of saddle to bar drop regardless of how many spacers under my stem. I never considered what degree my torso was at, only what was comfortable for the type of riding that I do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
x2

Are you asking if below 45 degrees is bad?
basically, yes. Because it seems being around 45 degrees torso angle while on the hoods is what's recommended as a good position. But with some long reach bikes or big saddle to bar drops, I don't see how that's always possible. Sorry for any confusion.
 

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I don't think the 45 degree mark is anything magical...

Cancellara is way beyond 45 degrees - almost flat


Arguably beyond flat - albeit on the drops, but he could move his hands to the hoods (bending only his elbows) and stay just as flat


As MMsRepBike said - it's all about the individual and what's comfortable.

I'm 48 and not a pro... really really far from pro. My bar is 4.5" lower than my saddle and when I'm on the bike, it feels oddly level. It's very comfortable... for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
is that you on the dogma?

The photo of cancarella, his elbows are bent... but what would his torso angle be if his elbows were only slightly bent? I think thats when its supposed to be around 45. But he's an animal, so I'm sure even then he is below 45!

Maybe the 45 degree thing is more for comfort and newer riders?
 

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My only guess is that this 45 degree thing is akin to the "you should have 2" under you when you stand over the frame" sizing thing.

Aero frames, wheels, helmets... psi, rolling resistance... bike weight... all of that is LESS important than the position of the body on the bike. YOU are what makes it hard to go fast(er). Getting in an efficienct AND aero position is key. Ignore any rules of thumb (or back) and find what works best for you.

Oh, that's not me on the Dogma. He's a little faster than me.
 

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I've never heard of this 45 degree thing. There is no standard number, and nothing is absolute.

Everyone is different. Arm length, torso length, hip flexibility, back arch, etc.

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I've never heard of this 45 degree thing.
If you read a general road bike fitting guide, it usually says your torso should be about 45 degrees while in normal riding position on the hoods.
 

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45 is a general rule of thumb, great for beginners. But if you're flexible enough and have a strong enough core that you're comfortable lower, why not? You'll be more aero. But be careful, sometimes lower makes you more aero, but makes it harder to generate as much power. Depends on the individual.

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basically, yes. Because it seems being around 45 degrees torso angle while on the hoods is what's recommended as a good position. But with some long reach bikes or big saddle to bar drops, I don't see how that's always possible. Sorry for any confusion.
Here's a thought experiment for you. If 45 degrees is "right" then what about 44.9 degrees? If 44.9 is OK, then what about 43 (or 47). If 43 is OK, then what about 40? Do you see where this is going? 45 degrees is just a point that is comfortable for some people. DO NOT slavishly adhere to this number when trying to set up your bike fit. What is comfortable for some people is unobtainable for others and "Why are you sitting so upright?" for still others.
 

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Here's a thought experiment for you. If 45 degrees is "right" then what about 44.9 degrees? If 44.9 is OK, then what about 43 (or 47). If 43 is OK, then what about 40? Do you see where this is going? 45 degrees is just a point that is comfortable for some people. DO NOT slavishly adhere to this number when trying to set up your bike fit. What is comfortable for some people is unobtainable for others and "Why are you sitting so upright?" for still others.
My estimate on Peter Griffin is about 89 degrees.

Eyewear Vision care Gesture Waist Animation
 
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