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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have an Specialized M4 Road , which I bought 5 years ago,and have about 14000 miles on it. I was talking with a dealer and he told me the frame had a tendency to crack. Then he said the Specialized would probably replace it with a Allez Pro (non s works ) frame if I had problems.

Has anyone else ever replaced their M4 or M5 Road frame, and did Specialized give youa high end replacement or try and low ball you??

As far as I know I dont have any problems, but when I bought this frame an Allez was much less expensive, and this was their Tour bike. Seems to me that Specialized ought to replace top end S Works with top end S Works for the original owner

Does anyone out there know their replacement policy for the once top of their line frame??
 

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well first I dont think they are low balling you. due to the age and wear issue. if you compared your frame and comonent group you have now to what the allez comes with it would probably be close. you might be able to push for a tarmac frame. doubt it but maybe
 

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you don't have any problems with your ride now, so why worry about their replacement policy? you've put many years and miles and the frame is still solid. if it breaks, worry then.
 

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I'm curious what their warranty says about situations like this. If it just says something like "equal value," then it seems like the ball is pretty much in their court, as value is such a vague word.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
curiousity killed the cat

I'm just curious what the policy is. When you buy the top of the line,wouldn't you expect S Works top of the line in replacement? After all it isn't your fault that prices have gone up and frame style changed..

Hopefully on my year end tear down,I'll find no major problems.
Larry:D
 

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A friend who had a 2000 or 2001 stumpjumper fsr had it fail due to fatigue. This bike was $NZ4700 new. Specialized replaced the frame with a FSR XC frame, a frame from a $2500 bike.

Yes its good that he got a new frame, but its certainly a down grade. Their view was that the trickle down in technology made the FSR the same level now. Following this logic, in your case you'd get an allez. If you had an s-works roubaix or tarmac, you'd get a normal roubaix or tarmac. I think if the frame was newer, you'd get a direct replacement.

I have to say that I'd be pretty pissed if I had a s-works of any age replaced with a lower spec bike. I guess that is why you see people selling replacement frames on ebay, as they'd rather sell their allez (for example) and put in the extra cash for an s-works.

With fatigue, as far as I can understand it, every alloy frame is going to crack eventually.
 

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Length of warrantee

Does it have a lifetime warrantee? When I bought a Specialized bike about 6 years ago, the warrantee was 5 years, in which case you might be on yor own. Lifetime warrantees are great, but I've always figured that if there was any actual manufacturing flaw in the frame it would turn up within 5 years.
 

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I am not familar with carbon,but for alloy, from everything I have learned, crack growth is going to happen over the life, until the cracks are big enough for a failure. So its not a question of if it fails, but when. Buying a alloy bike and expecting to have it as your last bike is just not realistic. (noted that if the stresses are very low, then there will be no crack growth if the cracks are within a certain limit from the factory).

Carbon may be different, although with bikes that flex (eg Roubaix), I wonder if they have a fixed life too ... composites is not my area. (I'm meeting a friend for a beer soon, and he ran a composites test lab for a composite supplier, so he might be able to provide some real science to this ... rather than hype and witch craft).

I'm not sure if my friends Stumpjumper had a lifetime or not. I can say that the 2005 s-works stumpjumper frame had a five year warranty, and the new one (2006) has a lifetime. I was looking to buy the 2005 on special, but then decided that if I waited and paid $200 or $300 more I could get a longer warranty ... which could translate into a replacement frame in six or more years time, rather than $3 worth of scrap alluminium.

One thing to note, alloy fatiguing isnt really a manufacturing defect. So if in ten years time Specialized et al are having lots of life time warranty claims on fatigue, they could turn around and say that its the nature of alloy .... and not a manufacturing defect.

I still believe that one is better off with a lifetime specialized warranty over a 2 warranty from another brand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
2000 S-Works M4 Road

This bike came with a lifetime warrnty. I was just curious about what others have seen from Specialized. I'll admit it made me hot to hear the shopowner say their policy would be to replace an S Works frame with less than S Works. Hopefully at teardown this fall there wont be any major damage.
 

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dura_ace said:
This bike came with a lifetime warrnty. I was just curious about what others have seen from Specialized. I'll admit it made me hot to hear the shopowner say their policy would be to replace an S Works frame with less than S Works. Hopefully at teardown this fall there wont be any major damage.
Even if there is a need for a replacement frame, a 2000 M4 is hardly equivalent to an Allez comp frame. Specialized are using the same frame as Cipo used to win the Worlds on their mid range Allez now.

It's not about keeping you on a top of the range frame, it's about keeping you on a comparable frame. S-Works is just a label. You're talking about a 6 year old frame, S-Works have moved on and warranty is not there to keep you up with the latest technology. If you want to upgrade, Specialized are pretty accommodating. All you do is ask the dealer if, once the warranty is OK'd, you can pay the difference and have the fram of your choice. In my experience they say yes.
 

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Well, I could argue, as a Fred, that I didn't buy the bike for a specific quality per se, but only because it was the best, and for specialized to replace my bike with something lesser, in terms of social status, would be an affront to my dignity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I wasn't buying a label, I was buying the best bike they made

When I got the M4 Road it was the top of the line. Now Specialized has split their line into several bikes. However I was buying the frame and bike since they were the top of the line. My 1982 Meryx I rode for >75000 miles with (3 gruppo rebuilds) Campy Super Record, and I've got 25% of that mileage on this bike.

I just took it as a little bit of an affront and was curious what other folks experience was with Specialized.. However to be fair, it kinda depends on whose ox is being gored as to how you feel about having to pay upwards of an additonal 1500 to 2800 to get the best frame to ride. I dont know about everyone else; but I'd rather save my $$ into a 401K that into Mr Specialized pocket.

I just felt they ought to at least keep you in the S Works line. I did buy it after riding lots of bikes, and loved (still do) the frame. As a matter of record, I dont change out frames or bikes all that often, just to get the "latest" technology; as the bike with Dura Ace and Helium wheels is able to hold it 's own with my group of riding friends. Nor do I buy any particular bike for a status symbol; as I've been doing triathelete bikes and 3000 to 4000 niles/year since the mid 70's, back when if you wanted something custom or trick, you had to make it yourself with your local machinist.

Buying the latest bling to show off is just not my style. I'd rather blip by a car at 25-30 mph on my bike and smile.:D
 

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I know that under New Zealand consumer law, you can give something a 'life time warranty', and it means the lifetime of the item, not user. Many manufacturers of many things have sold items with lifetime warranties, only to produce a report later that says the lifetime is actually only a few years.

I think I would rather have a black and white warranty for a fixed period. If they could say that in the first 5 years you get another s-works frame (material for material ... so alloy replaces alloy and carbon replaces carbon. If no replacement exists, then they give you a better frame) then from 5 - 10 you get an allez or lower spec bike (which with trickle down technology should be the same as you had, just no bling). What would specialized do if someone brought in a fifteen year old alloy bike that had finally failed due to fatigue (not a manufacturing fault really).

I'm currently looking very carefully at buying two high end (for me) specialized bikes (Tarmac and Stumpjumper/Epic). It may work out that buying S-works frames for these (mainly the mountain bike) is cheaper than buying a whole bike and having lots of parts I don't want. If I do this, the BIG selling factors are:

1) Lifetime Warranty.
2) S-works heritage (I like stuff with heritage behind it, just watched American Flyers movie ... with 1986 Allez's in it ...)
3) World wide warranty
4) Can buy through my LBS for a good price and have them step into bat for me if there are warranty issues down the line ... hopefully even in ten or more years time.

I guess Specialized rely on the fact that most people sell their bikes on before they fail, and as the warranty isnt transferrable, it's void, or they lose reciepts after a couple of years. The Mr Smith with his ten year old s-works and a reciept isnt probably the 1 in 100 customer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I've still got the reciept and the warranty card

I've still got the reciept to the bike, and the warranty card. After the last post I'll pull it out and see if it a "limited lifetime" or lifetime warranty. However I agree with the poster, as Specialized makes a good bike.

BTW between this S-Work M4 Road, and my S-Works FSR XC mountain bike, and the wife's stumpjumer we've been good customers to Specialized; which is another reason you'd think they would honor a warranty. After all these comments I'll have to call the Specialized rep for the Wisconsin area and get his read on thier policy.
 

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I recently had problems with my rear wheel on my 2005 Specialized Allez Sport. The bike is about eight months old and I started breaking spokes. My dealer told me this wasn't a warranty issue and I would have to pay to get it fixed. When I contacted Specialized about it I was told by them they rely on their dealers to be their eyes and ears and they stood behind their dealers. I ended up buying a wheelset from another dealer and won't be buying another Specialized again. It wasn't so much about the wheel as it was Specialized's attitude that made me not to want to buy there product again.
 

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A friend of mine had a similar experience. Chainstay on his M4 cracked last year and Specialized replaced it with a E5 SWorks. It was a factory refurb on the E5 (looked brand new), but my friend rides a 62cm frame and apparently that was all they had that they could send him.
 

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ultimobici said:
Even if there is a need for a replacement frame, a 2000 M4 is hardly equivalent to an Allez comp frame. Specialized are using the same frame as Cipo used to win the Worlds on their mid range Allez now.

It's not about keeping you on a top of the range frame, it's about keeping you on a comparable frame. S-Works is just a label. You're talking about a 6 year old frame, S-Works have moved on and warranty is not there to keep you up with the latest technology. If you want to upgrade, Specialized are pretty accommodating. All you do is ask the dealer if, once the warranty is OK'd, you can pay the difference and have the fram of your choice. In my experience they say yes.
That's about what I was gonna say. I HAD one of those M4 S-Works. The new ones are light years better in every way.

My 02 E5 S-Works is now the Allez. Trickle down...

IF it breaks (some did. Mine didn't) the Allez ain't a downgrade!

HTH,

M
 

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dura_ace said:
I've still got the reciept to the bike, and the warranty card. After the last post I'll pull it out and see if it a "limited lifetime" or lifetime warranty. However I agree with the poster, as Specialized makes a good bike.

BTW between this S-Work M4 Road, and my S-Works FSR XC mountain bike, and the wife's stumpjumer we've been good customers to Specialized; which is another reason you'd think they would honor a warranty. After all these comments I'll have to call the Specialized rep for the Wisconsin area and get his read on thier policy.
I've had a Specialized pretty consistently since my 87 Rockhopper... I've gone thru an M2 Road Pro, an M4 S-Works, a Carbon S-Works mtn bike, and now an E5 S-Works. For some reason, the geometry, etc. work for me. I keep selling em and getting new ones!

Next bike: S-Works Tarmac and/or Tarmac SL if I can find a good enough deal on one!

M
 
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