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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm having the online builder of my new bike (Moots Vamoots) put together everyday training wheels for my 200-lb. frame using Record 32h hubs with Mavic Open Pro rims. Based on posts here and elsewhere and the generally benign condition of the roads where I ride, I'm considering the following choices for spokes:

Front:
3X DT Swiss Revolution 2.0/1.5, aluminum nipples​

Rear:
3X DT Swiss Revolution 2.0/1.5, aluminum nipples (non-drive)​
3X DT Swiss Competition 2.0/1.8, brass nipples (drive)​

The other option, suggested by the bike builder, would be 3X DT Swiss Competition spokes with aluminum nipples all around, adding about 70g overall according to DT Swiss's spoke calculator.

Would the added weight really add appreciable strength and durability? On the other hand, would the Revolutions prove too fragile?
 

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Chili hed & old bike fixr
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How About?

Using all brass nipples. Alloy nipples have a tendency to seize as time goes by and making adjustments gets to be tough. I have had to replace way too many sets of nipples for that reason. It is not unusual for nipple heads to pop off of AL. nipples.
 

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Personally I would skip the Revolutions

The Competition is a good spoke. I am 6'5", 250lbs, and ride those 3x. I also have brass nipples on the Rear DS, aluminum nips everywhere else. Mike Garcia built mine. Plenty strong.

The Revolutions may save 20g per wheel. Hardly worth it, especially for training wheels. Brass nipples are always going to be stronger, so definitely on the Rear DS. I have no issues with aluminum everywhere else.
 

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Blackburn said:
The other option, suggested by the bike builder, would be 3X DT Swiss Competition spokes with aluminum nipples all around, adding about 70g overall according to DT Swiss's spoke calculator.
Revs are actually stronger where it counts... in fatigue. They are harder to build with, though. You could go with DT 2.3/1.8 spokes on the drive side, but I'd keep the Revs everywhere else. Use brass nipples too, if you want them to last.

If you want stronger wheels, get a stiffer (heavier, aero) rim.
 

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rruff said:
Revs are actually stronger where it counts... in fatigue. They are harder to build with, though. You could go with DT 2.3/1.8 spokes on the drive side, but I'd keep the Revs everywhere else. Use brass nipples too, if you want them to last.

If you want stronger wheels, get a stiffer (heavier, aero) rim.
To add to that, more light gauge spokes are better than fever heavier gauge spokes in a build. Consider 36 spokes in the rear wheel if you can. Then go with the Revos as previously stated. Brass nipples make more sense in an everyday wheelset.

-Eric
 

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Chili hed & old bike fixr
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rruff said:
Revs are actually stronger where it counts... in fatigue. They are harder to build with, though. You could go with DT 2.3/1.8 spokes on the drive side, but I'd keep the Revs everywhere else. Use brass nipples too, if you want them to last.

If you want stronger wheels, get a stiffer (heavier, aero) rim.
The use of the 2.3/1.8 spokes is real tough in a Campy or D/A hub because the hub may need to be drilled for clearance. The spoke is a 2.3 and the hub hole is 2.3 , due to size tolerences there may be difficulty in getting the spokes in place. I have also heard about the D/T Alpine series spokes having a problem with popping heads off. Regular butted spokes are plenty strong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Many thanks for the replies!

rruff: "Revs are actually stronger where it counts... in fatigue. They are harder to build with, though."

Too hard for most LBSes? Or would most competent wheelbuilders be capable of doing so?

ergott: "To add to that, more light gauge spokes are better than fever heavier gauge spokes in a build. Consider 36 spokes in the rear wheel if you can. Then go with the Revos as previously stated."

Would still you use heavier spokes (2.0/1.8) for the rear drive side?

As for rims, while many heavier riders on these boards have reported satisfaction with the Mavic OPs, I've also been seriously considering Mavic CXP 33s in combination with the same hubs and spokes mentioned above. Using brass nipples all around would push the overall weight to just over 1740g, not too bad for everyday training wheels.
 

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Do not use Revolution spokes on the rear wheel. I'm 215 and had a 32h Record hub built up with Revo spokes and a Reflex rim, flexiest wheel I've ever had. Rim developed cracks from the flexing of the spokes, which were tensioned properly. Switched to Velocity Deep V rims with DT 14/15 spokes. No problems. The Revo spokes on the front wheel were fine, btw.

chris
 

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Blackburn said:
rruff: "Revs are actually stronger where it counts... in fatigue. They are harder to build with, though."

Too hard for most LBSes? Or would most competent wheelbuilders be capable of doing so?
Do *not* have them built by anything less than an acknowledged builder with a good rep. Most LBSs will not have the skills or knowledge, or will just not take the time. The build is very important... it isn't just putting in the spokes and making the wheel true.

If you are thinking about rim alternatives, I don't know anybody who has had trouble with Velocity Fusions or Deep Vs.
 

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BeeCharmer said:
Do not use Revolution spokes on the rear wheel. I'm 215 and had a 32h Record hub built up with Revo spokes and a Reflex rim, flexiest wheel I've ever had. Rim developed cracks from the flexing of the spokes, which were tensioned properly. Switched to Velocity Deep V rims with DT 14/15 spokes.
The eyelets cracked from the spokes flexing? Sounds like a rim defect... Revs would be the *least* likely spoke to make eyelets fail because they are more elastic. The Deep V is a very stiff rim, and I'm sure that Revs would have been fine.
 

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I have a set of "battlewheels" for doing my long rides. The front is 3X32 14/15 with brass and the rear is 36H 14g straight with brass. A do-over might have used 14/15 in the rear. The hubs are Chorus and the rims are CPX-33s. I use Specialized 23/25mm Roubaix tires for comfort and good rolling resistance. IMHO, wheel stiffness is just as important as weight when climbing and the larger volume tire makes for a secure descent at 50+mph on the Windward side of the Pali Highway here on Oahu.
 

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The flanges on the Record hubs are well-suited to 15 ga spokes. So, I would go with 15/16 spokes with brass nipples. Aluminum nipples tend to bind and round off. They aren't worth the weight savings.

Revolution spokes cannot be brought up to optimal tension without some method of relieving tension while turning the nipple. There are wheelbuilding fixtures which will do this, but hardly anyone has them and you still have a problem if you are going to do any truing once the wheel leaves the shop.

Cracking around the eyelets of Mavic rims has been a common complaint. The solution that some wheelbuilders have is to use a lower spoke tension. This may reduce the likelihood of cracking, but it also results in a less durable wheel.

I usually build with Sun or Velocity rims. Each has their own issues. The sidewalls of Sun rims are rarely perfectly straight. So, you can build a wheel that is otherwise perfect, but there will be a slight wobble visible in the truing stand (but hard to see otherwise). If you try to build the wheel so the sidewall is perfectly straight, you will likely have uneven spoke tension which means that the wheel will later go out of true. Building a Sun rim with the slight wobble is preferable since if it is otherwise properly built, it will last.

Velocity rims without eyelets often have very rough edges around the spoke holes. I have seen these edges cut through brass nipples. I would recommend against using aluminum nipples on ANY rim without eyelets, but this is especially important with Velocity rims. If possible, I suggest smoothing these edges with a small file before building.

Hope this helps.
 

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Blackburn said:
ergott: "To add to that, more light gauge spokes are better than fever heavier gauge spokes in a build. Consider 36 spokes in the rear wheel if you can. Then go with the Revos as previously stated."

Would still you use heavier spokes (2.0/1.8) for the rear drive side?
Yes, either those or my personal favorite, the Wheelsmith DB 14 for the drive side. It is 2.0/1.7/2.0mm. With reguards to bringing Revolutions to "optimum" tension, I've never had a problem using Revolutions spokes to the tensions found in normal wheels (up to 120kgf).

-Eric
 

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DT Comps & revs are both fine

Either Comps or Revos will do you, provided you keep the spoke count up and preferably 3x at least on the rear. (ie don't go 20H radial). For example I'm around 240 and build my own wheels. My last three sets were/are:

CXP30 with DT comps on campy chorus hubs, 32H 3x F&R - absolutely bombproof but heavy rims. That said, they'll spin all day.

CXP33 with DT comps on Chris King Classic Roads, 32H 3x F&R, rock solid. These are on my roadie almost all the time.

NOS Mavic MA2 with Revos on Suzue track hubs, 36H 3x F&R. These are on my fixie commuter and cop an absolute shellacking - potholes, ruts, bunny hops, errant dog walkers etc. I'm not convinced Revos are worth the extra cost and the extra fiddle to build wcw Comps.

Not much imagination there I grant you but my truing stand is gathering dust.
 
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