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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
recommend to me spokes for my wheels!

thus far, i have a set of record 32 hole hubs and ambrosio excellence ssc rims.

i'm 155 lbs, these are going to be my training wheels on my primary race bike, so they need to be strong, durable, lightweight and aero would be nice too. is that too much to ask for?

my lbs is going to walk me through the building process and i'd like second opinions on the spoke choices.

thanks-
 

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r_mutt said:
these are going to be my training wheels on my primary race bike, so they need to be strong, durable, lightweight and aero would be nice too. is that too much to ask for?
Yes... you've already picked the wrong rim and hub if you really care about light and aero. But since they are *training* wheels, what does that matter? If you are new to wheelbuilding it is probably best to use 2.0/1.7-1.8mm spokes. Any brand will do. If you want to deal with them, 2.0/1.5mm spokes would be good for the NDS and front.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
rruff said:
Yes... you've already picked the wrong rim and hub if you really care about light and aero. But since they are *training* wheels, what does that matter?

:blush2: :blush2: :blush2: :D

i guess i was asking for too much. i was originally going to go with white industries hubs with a low spoke count, but i found these campy hubs NOS on e-bay and it was a steal of a price- i couldn't pass them up. these were always going to be my "dependable" set of wheels so maybe it's not such a bad thing if they are somewhat heavy with 32 spokes- light would have been nice, but i wasn't going to cry about it.

before i bought the excellight ssc's, i contemplated getting a set of niobium 30's, and even ambrosio's focus fcr (28mm), but since i already had a set of campy zondas to act as my "aero" wheel, i decided to get regular, low profile rims.


rruff said:
If you are new to wheelbuilding it is probably best to use 2.0/1.7-1.8mm spokes. Any brand will do. If you want to deal with them, 2.0/1.5mm spokes would be good for the NDS and front.

why would a particular kind of spoke be easier for a new wheelbuilder? is it a tension thing? a local wheelbuilder in my area is walking me through this, and realistically, is probably going to do most of the work. i've always been curious about building wheels, and this is a good way to get a set built while learning the build process at the same time. it will also help when it comes time to truing the wheels myself down the line.

i bought the jobst brandt book as well to have as a reference guide and to get familiar with concepts before the build. maybe for my next build, i'll shoot for something more exotic.

thanks-


:cool:
 

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the 2.0-1.5 dt revo or sapim laser spokes twist around alot rather then tighten up when u hit higher tension... if u wanna save around 100grams, i would still build w/ them front and NDS.. otherwise all dt comp would be easier and slightly cheaper...u just have to be more patient with the thinner spoke and, preferably tag them with some tape so you can see them twist... turn the nipple a little past the required tension, then slowly turn it back and the little flag u made will return close to its original position without losing too much tension... not too hard, but tedious...

cx-rays as they are bladed will be easier still... u can see them twist and they even have a tool, or you can make one, to hold them straight as you tension them up... downside? 2.5-3x more expensive than the sapim laser spoke that they are made out of ! if you can afford it, y not.. but as rruff said, sticking aero spokes on these wheels is a bit like H.Clinton still running: pointless.
 

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r_mutt said:
recommend to me spokes for my wheels! .......they need to be strong, durable, lightweight and aero would be nice too.
The benchmark are 2.0/1.8/2.0mm double butted spokes and Sapim Race and DT Competitions are the most popular versions.

For the newby wheelbuilder I think Roger Musson's e-book is the best and the link to it is in my sig info.
 

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Mike T. said:
The benchmark are 2.0/1.8/2.0mm double butted spokes and Sapim Race and DT Competitions are the most popular versions.

For the newby wheelbuilder I think Roger Musson's e-book is the best and the link to it is in my sig info.
That's basically what I recommend to *most* people.

Simple, basic, durable.

Ride em myself too, so I do practice what I preach. Only wheel I've made with 15/16ga butted spokes was way flexy under my far arse. Nie wieder.

M
 

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r_mutt said:
: i guess i was asking for too much.
They are going to be great for your intended purpose! And even if you race on them they aren't going to slow you down much, so don't worry. Record hubs are fine... just a bit lacking in the drillings is all.

If you have a good builder helping you it would be fine to use the light spokes on the front and NDS. Lube them well and mark them with a pen so you can see the windup, and a spoke holder is a good tool to have handy also.
 

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wankski said:
cx-rays as they are bladed will be easier still... u can see them twist and they even have a tool, or you can make one, to hold them straight as you tension them up... downside? 2.5-3x more expensive than the sapim laser spoke that they are made out of ! if you can afford it, y not.. but as rruff said, sticking aero spokes on these wheels is a bit like H.Clinton still running: pointless.
I'd disagree a bit. It the OP isn't concerned with aero and he just wanted the strongest light weight spoke he could get (and could afford it) I see no issue with using cx-rays. I had a set of OP CD Cermaics laced to 32 hole H1s for just that purpose. Just my 2 cents...
 

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Is this really considered a heavy wheel set?

With the newer record hubs they should weigh aroun 1520 or so grams.
and with white hubs around 1480.

I consider a heavy training wheelset around 1900+ grams.

I am building a similar wheel as you with the whites, cx rays and ambrosio excellight sscs, 32's both front and rear, 2 cross front, 2/3 rear as my light set. That being said I am also 205lbs.
 

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I have several sets of record hubs/open pro rims with revolutions on the front and NDS with the rear either DB14 or competitions on the drive side. they are light (1560g approx) dependable and repairable. They are a great training set. open pros and ambrosio excellence ssc rims are similar.
 

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Ramjm_2000 said:
I'd disagree a bit. It the OP isn't concerned with aero and he just wanted the strongest light weight spoke he could get (and could afford it) I see no issue with using cx-rays. I had a set of OP CD Cermaics laced to 32 hole H1s for just that purpose. Just my 2 cents...
well, the OP did mention aero in his post... just sayin' even if there were an aero benefit w/ using cx-rays, 32 spokes and a low profile rim is not my definiton of aero, so it'd be lost on that set up.... sure if cost is no object and you want easy build up, then go for it.... but if not just use the sapim laser, that's what the cx-ray is rolled from. same weight/stiffness etc...
pigpen said:
Is this really considered a heavy wheel set?
With the newer record hubs they should weigh aroun 1520 or so grams.
and with white hubs around 1480.
.
weight of current campag record: 115 front 230g rear = 345g

WI H2 front: 95g rear: 275 campy version! = 370... i.e. h2s are heavier.

best of all you could combine a h2 front w/ a campy rear to get a really sweet campy-compat wheelset for low weight, reasonable money, and the option of radial at the front...

you could feasibly get the record/op set down to 1525g w/ all cx-ray or laser/revo... (dunno what the ambrosio rim really weighs - prolly similar)

that said i would use dt comp in the rear DS adding around 32g in the rear... c.1550g for a solid wheel like that is pretty good...

or if you want low weight and all cxray, i would prolly go record rear (32h), WI front 28h... @ 155lbs you should be fine... you're looking at around 1480g. Of course you could lace the WI hub radial if you wish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
my lbs is also suggesting that they could cut their own spokes as an option as they have a spoke machine. does anyone have experience with this? if we go that route, should i insist on a certain material?
 

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r_mutt said:
my lbs is also suggesting that they could cut their own spokes as an option as they have a spoke machine. does anyone have experience with this? if we go that route, should i insist on a certain material?

I will assume that they have a Phil Wood spoke machine. That would be the way to go with any spoke option.

Measure the rim accurately. Rims are notorious for inaccurate ERDs. The hub specs are usually close enough not to change the spoke length. Once put into a calc, use those lengths. For light gauge spokes with a 1.5mm center, I subtract 1mm from the result if they are for the front wheel and drive side of the rear wheel. I subtract only 0.5mm from the result for non drive rear. For 1.8mm spokes (at the better section), I only subtract 0.5mm and 0 from the result (respectively).

Make sure that they have modified the PW machine in a way that keeps the spoke tray from sliding wile it's being used. If they haven't, make this suggestion. Tap a 5mm bolt hole right at the end of the built in ruler. A stem bolt threaded there will lock down the tray so it stays at the correct measurement for the duration of the cutting.

You can be as accurate as you want with that machine and the goal is to always have the spokes come flush with the top of the nipple.

-Eric
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
thanks all for the responses. we decided to go with dt swiss competition double butted all around. it was her recommendation. she also recommended (as i said light and strong) 3X.

as this is going to be my first wheel build (with coaching) she claimed that brass nipples would be easier for me.

as for radial lacing the front, it there any disadvantage to doing this?

i will post pics on this thread when finished-


:)
 

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mainly extra stress on the hub flange, but whatever... just make sure the hub u are getting is warranted for it.... eg, dt front hubs come in both flavours...

if you are still using the campy record hubs (or any campy) the answer to that is no... but i have seen ppl do it anyways...
 
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