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I am about to get my wheels rebuilt with new rims -
  • DT Hugi 240S 32 Hole Hubs 96g & 220g
  • Mavic Classics SSC Ceramic Tubular Rims 410g each
My question is what spoke pattern would you use on these wheels?

My builder uses DT spokes exclusively and favours plain gauge.

I weigh about 165lb and am light on equipment. Roads here in the south east of England are average quality tarmac.

I'm not looking for super light as I am planning to build up a pair of 28's with Extralite hubs and Ambrosio Crono rims later in the year.
 

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+1 on the butted spokes. I would insist on it. For 32 holes I would probably use (and have used) 3X in the back as suggested above and probably radial in the front. Radial on the front is a preference on my part, not a recommendation. Crossed spoked wheels are certainly stronger than radial. For the 28 hole, I would do (and have done) 2X.
 

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Push for butted spokes.

I'm a fan of radial fronts; I also believe that they have no meaningful functional advantage, and can be bad with some hubs. I like 'em anyway, strictly on aesthetic grounds.

For the rear, I believe in 3x DS, radial NDS. I feel it balances the tension somewhat better.

All said, wheelbuilding is nearly as much religion as science, and if someone tells me I'm wrong, I won't argue. Even if they are all wrong.
 

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three cross front and rear. butted spokes, brass nipples. a classic and timeless design. best looking too, at least in my book. low key elegance, a true "form follows function" build.
 

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You're the customer!

Front Wheel: 15/16g spokes, 3x pattern, alloy nips.

Rear: 14/15g drive-side, with brass nips 3X pattern

Non-Drive side: 15/16g, alloy nips, 3X pattern. You're only 20 lbm more than me, and I've built a few very nice wheels with this formula.
 

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They're all right,
brass nipples, x3 and db spokes (I often use hoshi db, but I believe DT are OK)
If I were you, I would use Ambrosio Nemesis; I have seen quite a few Reflex rims tear at the eyelets.
Do not use alloy nipples.
 

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ultimobici said:
My builder uses DT spokes exclusively and favours plain gauge.
I'm not looking for super light as I am planning to build up a pair of 28's with Extralite hubs and Ambrosio Crono rims later in the year.
14g (2mm) spokes are easy to build with because they twist less... that is the only reason I can think of that he favors them. Actually if that is what he recommends I'd consider finding a different builder.

Revs (2.0/1.5mm) with Alpines (2.3/1.8mm) on the drive side would probably be the best combo. To save a little money you could use 1.8/1.6mm and 2.0/1.8mm spokes. Brass nipples.

Lacing pattern? Probably 3x all around.
 

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Although I prefer radial laced front wheels, I would make sure the DT240 front hub is designed for radial lacing. DT makes several 240 front hubs and only one of them is designed for radial lacing.
 

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Good point

The OP mentions Hugi... The old Hugi hubs were not warrantied for radial lacing. It is only since DT Swiss has taken over that they released a separate, front hub design with a thicker flange for radial lacing has been offered. This is the newer style with the red band logo.
 

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No benefit. .

JimP said:
Although I prefer radial laced front wheels, I would make sure the DT240 front hub is designed for radial lacing. DT makes several 240 front hubs and only one of them is designed for radial lacing.
. .To radial lacing. Pure cosmetics, some decrease in lateral rigidity.
 

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KATZRKOL said:
. .To radial lacing. Pure cosmetics, some decrease in lateral rigidity.
Actually a radial laced wheel is stiffer laterally then a wheel that has been cross laced. If a front wheel is laced with the heads of the spokes on the inside of the flange it will be stiffer then a the same wheel built with the spokes crossed.
 

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why is it then, we see mostly heads on the outside of the flanges, at least in production wheels?
seem this would have a slight rigidity advantage laterally, as the spokes are closer together at the hub.


Ligero said:
Actually a radial laced wheel is stiffer laterally then a wheel that has been cross laced. If a front wheel is laced with the heads of the spokes on the inside of the flange it will be stiffer then a the same wheel built with the spokes crossed.
 

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odeum said:
why is it then, we see mostly heads on the outside of the flanges, at least in production wheels?
seem this would have a slight rigidity advantage laterally, as the spokes are closer together at the hub.
Because front wheels are aleady stiff enough (30-40% stiffer than rears anyway)... so it is a style and slightly aero issue.
 

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Beyond aesthetics, lacing with the heads on the inside necessitates bending the heads beyond 90d all around the hub.

The bends are already the weak spot of the spokes, bending (creasing) the heads further does weaken the most highly stressed area of the spoke.

Here's a good question for clarification. How many of you have ever had a spoke break (through fatigue) at the nipple? Somewhere along the stretch of the spoke? Now how many have you broken on a 3x wheel (!) at the head?

If you gotta do radial, heads on the outside. We don't ride low-riders...do we?
 

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Farmer John said:
Beyond aesthetics, lacing with the heads on the inside necessitates bending the heads beyond 90d all around the hub.

The bends are already the weak spot of the spokes, bending (creasing) the heads further does weaken the most highly stressed area of the spoke.
Half of the spokes on a 3x wheel will be bent even *farther* than radial spokes are with heads in. This is not an issue. The important point is to remove residual stresses by yielding the spokes (slightly) after they are bent.
 

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odeum said:
why is it then, we see mostly heads on the outside of the flanges, at least in production wheels?
seem this would have a slight rigidity advantage laterally, as the spokes are closer together at the hub.
The reason most production wheels are laced with the heads in is 2 reasons. First is it takes a tiny bit less time to lace it with thte heads out especially if you are using a machine to lace it. Second is that it puts a bit more stress into the flange with the heads in so to minimize the chance of breaking flanges they lace it heads out.
 

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Farmer John said:
Beyond aesthetics, lacing with the heads on the inside necessitates bending the heads beyond 90d all around the hub.
Like RRuff said the spokes on a 2 or 3 cross wheel are bent even further then they would be if they were laeed radial with the heads in.


Farmer John said:
If you gotta do radial, heads on the outside. We don't ride low-riders...do we?
What does lowriders have to do with this? Lowriders lace with the heads out at least the ones that I have seen, but I am no expert on lowriders so I could be wrong.
 

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Ligero said:
Actually a radial laced wheel is stiffer laterally then a wheel that has been cross laced. If a front wheel is laced with the heads of the spokes on the inside of the flange it will be stiffer then a the same wheel built with the spokes crossed.
In my attempt to understand the terms better are these assumtions correct..... Cross lacing is the 2x/3x wheels? The head of a spoke it the part on the opposite end from the nipple? So heads on the inside means the spoke itself is as far to the outside as possible so the ends on opposite sides point to each other?

If radial lacing is stiffer then cross lacing then when is cross lacing the one everyone says to get from high strength? It is that cross lacing can absorm more shock making the peak forces the wheel is exposed to less?

Sorry for the stupid question.
 
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