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Born to chase Ducks
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InsanityBeckons said:
Is it normal for the Red to have a loud pop when down shifting?
Based on my personal experience with mine...I'd say yes. Now that I've got that out of the way...are you hearing this from the shift lever, or the derailleur? I'm just getting used to what has to be the noisiest shifting system yet invented.

-- Don4
 

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Born to chase Ducks
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InsanityBeckons said:
From the lever.
Yup. That's what I think I'm hearing. Almost sounds like something is snapping in half. But it keeps working, so I figure that's just the way it sounds.
 

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zach.scofield said:
100% agreed. Don4, how do you like the double tap? I personally dislike it very much.
LOL! So, Zach, tell me how you really feel! :)

Hmmm. Well, So far, I've got just over 200 miles experience with them.

Things I Like
  1. I like the way the rear derailleur upshifts (27 --> 12). That it does really nicely and without too much fuss.
  2. I like the way with three sweeps of the right lever, I can downshift (27 <-- 12) all the way to my easy gear when I give up on a hill and go to spin. Hoping to use that feature less and less as I go from (250# --> 170# target). But that part works great.
  3. I like my brake levers to be brake levers. Period. This SRAM does very well.

Things I'm Hoping Just Have A Learning Curve
  1. Downshifting (27 <-- 12) the rear derailleur a single gear at a time. It's hard to tell sometimes if you've actually executed the downshift, and about a third of the time it seems like it doesn't take. I end up watching my computer to see if I get the expected bump in cadence. It seems that a slow push past the first pawl is not a successful as a quick punch at the lever. But the jury is still out.
  2. Shifting the front derailleur is working better now after the shop owner adjusted it at his support tent at the century I rode this weekend, but I'm going to reserve judgement until I get it truly FIXED. Seems one of his mechanics didn't bother to move the front derailleur to the proper mounting hole for the compact crankset when they swapped it in. So I had a 13 mm gap between the bottom of the cage and the top of the teeth on the 50t gear. Not the 1-3 mm specified.

Thing's That Drive Me Nuts
  1. When you get to your largest cog on the cassette, and try to downshift one more gear, hoping you have one left, you get click #1 when the first (upshift) pawl engages, and you never get click #2 for the second (downshift) pawl, because there's nowhere left to go, and so the system UPSHIFTS you to your next smaller cog. Yeah, THAT what I wanted to happen! NOT! I've learned to recognize it, and if you quickly release and sweep the right shift lever to click #2, you can actually prevent it from making the upshift. But that is frankly a pain in the asp. There were mechanical computers that could add, subtract, multiply and divide even before Tullio Campagnolo invented the quick release in 1927. SRAM needs to find a way resolve this gracefully.
  2. Shifters themselves are noisy -- particularly the left one for the front derailleur.
  3. Drivetrain noise is not really an issue when running, but I've had people comment on how noisy it is when actually shifting, especially under load.
  4. "Andy Schleck moments". While I have not had exactly the same issue, I have had the chain overshoot both the large cog (see 13 mm gap -- no really, you can see it from Plattsburgh!), and scrape up my nice carbon crankarm, and even after it was adjusted at the ride and was shifting well, I had it drop off the small cog to the inside as well just once. Maybe I shouldn't have been attempting a rear derailleur double tap double upshift at the same time I was attempting to downshift the front from my 50 to my 34 (stupid accountant tricks). That last one may be operator error. But it still drives me nuts!

All that said, I am coming off of a bike that had downtube shifters. Sure, they were Dura-Ace downtube shifters, and the rear derailleur was actually indexed Dura-Ace (front Suntour Superbe) so maybe I'm spoiled. I'm not having to deal with the transition from the Shimano concept of combination Brakes / Shifters, but it was precisely my dislike for how the brake levers move on Shimano that led me to try the SRAM. I did test it before I ordered and thought it was worth trying. I was interested in the Campy, but it is really hard to find a bike around here to test.

I guess I'll either get to the point where I have everything tuned in and working to my satisfaction, or I'll get to the point where I'm mad as heck and not going to take it anymore, and will switch. But at this point, too early to tell! :)

-- Don
 

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SRAM Force FD shiftting

Can someone confirm that to go to small ring you have to double tap.? Two loud clicks before your chain goes to the small ring. Unlike going from the small to the big ring which is usually and smooth and quiet movement. feedback is appreciated.
 

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Don4 said:
LOL! So, Zach, tell me how you really feel! :)

Hmmm. Well, So far, I've got just over 200 miles experience with them.

Things I Like
  1. I like the way the rear derailleur upshifts (27 --> 12). That it does really nicely and without too much fuss.
  2. I like the way with three sweeps of the right lever, I can downshift (27 <-- 12) all the way to my easy gear when I give up on a hill and go to spin. Hoping to use that feature less and less as I go from (250# --> 170# target). But that part works great.
  3. I like my brake levers to be brake levers. Period. This SRAM does very well.

Things I'm Hoping Just Have A Learning Curve
  1. Downshifting (27 <-- 12) the rear derailleur a single gear at a time. It's hard to tell sometimes if you've actually executed the downshift, and about a third of the time it seems like it doesn't take. I end up watching my computer to see if I get the expected bump in cadence. It seems that a slow push past the first pawl is not a successful as a quick punch at the lever. But the jury is still out.
  2. Shifting the front derailleur is working better now after the shop owner adjusted it at his support tent at the century I rode this weekend, but I'm going to reserve judgement until I get it truly FIXED. Seems one of his mechanics didn't bother to move the front derailleur to the proper mounting hole for the compact crankset when they swapped it in. So I had a 13 mm gap between the bottom of the cage and the top of the teeth on the 50t gear. Not the 1-3 mm specified.

Thing's That Drive Me Nuts
  1. When you get to your largest cog on the cassette, and try to downshift one more gear, hoping you have one left, you get click #1 when the first (upshift) pawl engages, and you never get click #2 for the second (downshift) pawl, because there's nowhere left to go, and so the system UPSHIFTS you to your next smaller cog. Yeah, THAT what I wanted to happen! NOT! I've learned to recognize it, and if you quickly release and sweep the right shift lever to click #2, you can actually prevent it from making the upshift. But that is frankly a pain in the asp. There were mechanical computers that could add, subtract, multiply and divide even before Tullio Campagnolo invented the quick release in 1927. SRAM needs to find a way resolve this gracefully.
  2. Shifters themselves are noisy -- particularly the left one for the front derailleur.
  3. Drivetrain noise is not really an issue when running, but I've had people comment on how noisy it is when actually shifting, especially under load.
  4. "Andy Schleck moments". While I have not had exactly the same issue, I have had the chain overshoot both the large cog (see 13 mm gap -- no really, you can see it from Plattsburgh!), and scrape up my nice carbon crankarm, and even after it was adjusted at the ride and was shifting well, I had it drop off the small cog to the inside as well just once. Maybe I shouldn't have been attempting a rear derailleur double tap double upshift at the same time I was attempting to downshift the front from my 50 to my 34 (stupid accountant tricks). That last one may be operator error. But it still drives me nuts!

All that said, I am coming off of a bike that had downtube shifters. Sure, they were Dura-Ace downtube shifters, and the rear derailleur was actually indexed Dura-Ace (front Suntour Superbe) so maybe I'm spoiled. I'm not having to deal with the transition from the Shimano concept of combination Brakes / Shifters, but it was precisely my dislike for how the brake levers move on Shimano that led me to try the SRAM. I did test it before I ordered and thought it was worth trying. I was interested in the Campy, but it is really hard to find a bike around here to test.

I guess I'll either get to the point where I have everything tuned in and working to my satisfaction, or I'll get to the point where I'm mad as heck and not going to take it anymore, and will switch. But at this point, too early to tell! :)

-- Don
Hi Don, I realize this is an old thread, but having just bought (am waiting for) my first bike with SRAM drivetrain and coming off of a Dura Ace 7800 complete drivetrain I am interested in this issue. I have ridden SRAM on just a few rides - and yes it is noisier.

That said, in my experience the two biggest issues ( 1 & 4 ) from your Things that drive me nuts - are actually Compact drive train issues, and user error issues - and not necassarily a SRAM issue. That is to say I switched to compact the jump from 34 to 50 is fundamentally to big a shift to be quiet and graceful and perform flawlessly 100% of the time. With Compact you really need to keep that FD dialed in on it's limit screws. There is a reason 100+ years of cycling widdled down the ratios to 14 teeth or 53/39. However, I like compact as the only Negative is really that jump (or dump) up front. As for issue #1 - that's just knowing what gear you're in - but I understand you don't like how the shifters handle it once executed. I've worked really hard at knowing every gear everytime I'm in it, and I think it has made me a better stronger cyclist (than I used to be - not compared to everyone else!) If you know what gear your in, you never mis-shift!

Anyway, I am in transition from Shimano to SRAM so found this thread interesting. Hope your finding your way through these issues.
 

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Don4 said:
[*]When you get to your largest cog on the cassette, and try to downshift one more gear, hoping you have one left, you get click #1 when the first (upshift) pawl engages, and you never get click #2 for the second (downshift) pawl, because there's nowhere left to go, and so the system UPSHIFTS you to your next smaller cog. Yeah, THAT what I wanted to happen! NOT! I've learned to recognize it, and if you quickly release and sweep the right shift lever to click #2, you can actually prevent it from making the upshift. But that is frankly a pain in the asp. There were mechanical computers that could add, subtract, multiply and divide even before Tullio Campagnolo invented the quick release in 1927. SRAM needs to find a way resolve this gracefully.
-- Don

They have, most just don't know it. There are 9.5ish clicks in the rear shifter. The key is to make sure your hanger is straight and over adjust the low limit just a hair. This allows the RD to almost make a up shift and grab the .5 of a click keeping it from down shifting. Issue fixed. Sadly 1 out of 10 SRAM employees know this. I have done this on RED, Rival, Apex ect.
 
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