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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Leaked Images!





Man, this will have me thinking about SRAM now.
 

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Has the tall hood like the supposed DA hydraulic prototype. Imo that could be pretty comfortable.

But alas I'm poor and like Campy levers. The supposed Magura or TRP adapter kits need to get cheaper if they can work in the first place, let alone be released.
 

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Has the tall hood like the supposed DA hydraulic prototype. Imo that could be pretty comfortable.

But alas I'm poor and like Campy levers. The supposed Magura or TRP adapter kits need to get cheaper if they can work in the first place, let alone be released.
The TRP kit isn't that much when you consider that it includes calipers and all that.

Volagi has models coming out with the TRP hydraulic setup soon. The TRP is in my catalogs, but not available wholesale yet. Dammit. I want it for my Redline.
 

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Can someone tell me what hydraulic breaking is? How does it differ from whats currently being used?
 

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Can someone tell me what hydraulic breaking is? How does it differ from whats currently being used?

Who cares it's cool and new, must buy.......
 

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I'm totally ignorant about hydraulic stuff. What's the advantage? Simpler? Better function? Lighter? Cheaper for a given weight?

[edit: I see someone else asked the same question, but I'm still curious]
 

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I'm totally ignorant about hydraulic stuff. What's the advantage? Simpler? Better function? Lighter? Cheaper for a given weight?

[edit: I see someone else asked the same question, but I'm still curious]
Cables stretch and cable disc calipers flex (the actuation arm). Hydraulic brakes never need adjustment, always deliver a firm lever feel (unless there's a leak in the system) and require much less hand force to operate.

The advantage of discs in general is the amount of modulation they have and the lack of rim wear. Hydraulic discs add more available power (cable discs are somewhat limited by your own hand strength plus the aforementioned stretch/flex).

I have a Hayes disc system on my Rocky Mountain Vertex that hasn't been touched since 2000 except to replace the pads. Compare that to the number of time you've had to replace brake cables.
 

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Cables stretch and cable disc calipers flex (the actuation arm). Hydraulic brakes never need adjustment, always deliver a firm lever feel (unless there's a leak in the system) and require much less hand force to operate.

The advantage of discs in general is the amount of modulation they have and the lack of rim wear. Hydraulic discs add more available power (cable discs are somewhat limited by your own hand strength plus the aforementioned stretch/flex).

I have a Hayes disc system on my Rocky Mountain Vertex that hasn't been touched since 2000 except to replace the pads. Compare that to the number of time you've had to replace brake cables.
How do you think the weight, simplicity (ease of installation, maintenance, adjustment) and cost will compare? To be apples to apples, let's say a hydraulic rim brake system on a road bike compared to a top of the line cable rim brake system? Again, genuinely curious. This is interesting to me.
 

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I think the rim calipers will be the thing first. You need a new frame and wheels, not just the shifters to use the 2 in the top pic (disk set up)

I think that is where I will go first. Pricing will dictate when I jump.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The main advantage of the Road Disc brakes will be with carbon fiber rims:

1. WAAAAY better when weather performance, period. Hence, why you will see this in the pro peleton by the 2013 season.

2. No wear on CF rims

3. No heat issues with CF clincher rims on log decents.

4. Overall easier and smoother breaking.

I am finally going to build a cross bike and it looks like I am going to try this by next year.
 

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The main advantage of the Road Disc brakes will be with carbon fiber rims:

1. WAAAAY better when weather performance, period. Hence, why you will see this in the pro peleton by the 2013 season.

2. No wear on CF rims

3. No heat issues with CF clincher rims on log decents.

4. Overall easier and smoother breaking.

I am finally going to build a cross bike and it looks like I am going to try this by next year.
Those are the biggies, yep.


How do you think the weight, simplicity (ease of installation, maintenance, adjustment) and cost will compare? To be apples to apples, let's say a hydraulic rim brake system on a road bike compared to a top of the line cable rim brake system? Again, genuinely curious. This is interesting to me.
The discs will be heavier, but not by much.

1. Disc caliper vs rim caliper is pretty much a wash.
2. The lever will possibly be a little heavier, but not enough to bother with.
3. The disc itself will add weight. However, the rim of the wheel can be made a little lighter since it doesn't need to withstand braking forces (but does need to have a stronger spokebed for the braking forces from the hub)
4. The hub will be heavier due to the disc-mounting flange.

Complete guess, but I'd say the difference will be close to Red calipers vs. Apex brake calipers.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
T

The discs will be heavier, but not by much.

1. Disc caliper vs rim caliper is pretty much a wash.
2. The lever will possibly be a little heavier, but not enough to bother with.
3. The disc itself will add weight. However, the rim of the wheel can be made a little lighter since it doesn't need to withstand braking forces (but does need to have a stronger spokebed for the braking forces from the hub)
4. The hub will be heavier due to the disc-mounting flange.

Complete guess, but I'd say the difference will be close to Red calipers vs. Apex brake calipers.
Disc equipped bikes will be heavier and more than you think. Bt the overall advantages will be there. If the retro grouches get over nostalgia, they will catch on soon. If you ride in mountainous area, how can you not jump? Cross? Commuter bikes even?

Hell, I live it flat Florida and disc braking is so far superior in nay condition.

What I do't get is , why such big rotors? I bet a 120mm rotor or even smaller would work for road bikes. I assume maybe a whole new caliper technology would have to be built to accommodate smaller rotors? Too small to work?
 

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Disc equipped bikes will be heavier and more than you think. Bt the overall advantages will be there. If the retro grouches get over nostalgia, they will catch on soon. If you ride in mountainous area, how can you not jump? Cross? Commuter bikes even?
Eh....I have no desire for them and I do ride in a pretty mountainous area. I've yet to feel I need more brake than even Deltas :eek: provide. I have no intention of using carbon rims as long as any Al ones exist so that angle isn't important.

In case you think I have no clue, I've ran hydraulic brakes on the MTB for ages...HS22s in the pre-disc era and currently Martas. I just don't see the need on the road.
 

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The main advantage of the Road Disc brakes will be with carbon fiber rims:

1. WAAAAY better when weather performance, period. Hence, why you will see this in the pro peleton by the 2013 season.
I don't think we will see them already in 2013.

First UCI has to allow them. Then they must try them. Look at CX, it was allowed since mid 2010. This year nobody used them at pro level bar a few like Tim Johnson who completely unknown in the european pro cx scene.

You may see one or two pros testing them the first year when UCI will allow them, but no more.
 

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Cables stretch and cable disc calipers flex (the actuation arm). Hydraulic brakes never need adjustment, always deliver a firm lever feel (unless there's a leak in the system) and require much less hand force to operate.
I'm not convinced. First of all, for calipers, I'll say outright that hydraulic calipers is a pointless gimmick. I can operate my cable-actuated calipers just fine. Required hand force is determined by required pad travel, which in turn is based on required pad clearance due to the finite accuracy with which you can true a wheel. There's going to be no meaningful difference betwen cable- and hydraulic-actuated calipers.

Compare that to the number of time you've had to replace brake cables.

Uhmm, how about pretty much never? At least not within the last ten years. Can you guarantee that those hydraulics will let me get away with as little maintenance as that?

The advantage of discs in general is the amount of modulation they have and the lack of rim wear.
Yes, there's advantages to discs, but lots of adjustments that are necessary. Different hubs, and different spoking patterns. You should probably think about adapting the fork as well. And forget about those lightweight radially-spoked front wheels, too. With discs, the front wheel needs to be almost as strong as the rear (well, the vertical load is still a lot less than in the rear, but torque from braking can be a lot higher). And, yes, there's the UCI, too. When all is said and done, I think it's going to take a while for those hydraulics to achieve anything like significant market penetration.
 

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The other nice part will be the fact that bends and twists in the hose won't effect brake performance. So the brake line can be hidden inside the frame and you'll gain an aero advantage. I can see this being pretty big on TT bikes.

I for one cannot wait for the disk brake revolution to finally arrive. Imagine having infinitely variable and reliable braking on a full carbon race wheel? 20 mile steep descent with lots of hard braking? No problem!
 

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I'm not convinced. First of all, for calipers, I'll say outright that hydraulic calipers is a pointless gimmick. I can operate my cable-actuated calipers just fine. Required hand force is determined by required pad travel, which in turn is based on required pad clearance due to the finite accuracy with which you can true a wheel. There's going to be no meaningful difference betwen cable- and hydraulic-actuated calipers.
I'm not going to get into this whole hydraulic/cable debate, there have been a million threads here and on MTBR that pretty much cover everything!

But to this statement I will simply say it is totally incorrect, with cables you have a mechanical advantage using levers only, with hydraulics you have a MUCH greater advantage utilizing fluid dynamics. Put simply, the master cylinder pushes a certain volume of fluid against the slave (caliper pistons), your level throw is moving much further than the pistons in the caliper, if you push the fluid from a small long cylinder to a short wide cylinder you have much greater force being applied with much less work.

I'm sure someone can explain this more clearly but in the end I have Hydros on 2 bikes and Dura-Ace on one and my god the hydros **** all over cable calipers any day of the week.:thumbsup:

My only problem is I love my current frame! Damn!!:mad2:
 
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