Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
1 - 20 of 57 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
STAGES G2 or 4iiii (CAYETE) ?

After a healthy discussion on single and dual PMs, I decided to go for a single one.
For my purpose and use, a single consistent number looks to be enough.

Now the question comes if should I go for STAGES or 4iiii /CAYETE?

Both are easy to move from one bike to another and light.
Stages G2 looks it has solved the water problems, is in the market for some while.
4iiii is a new comer, where looks there are some problems with change in temperature, but otherwise works well. Been told the owner is the same person who invested ANT + technology and sold it to Garmin.
Some dealers say the have more return /issues on 4iii than stages, but they say they are selling more of 4iiiis.

Both product look similar, while pricing is not.


Any views?

Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,006 Posts
After reading about all the issues with Stages in the beginning, do you really want to gamble with another first generation product?

Anyway, agreed with the previous poster, Pioneer before either, but at that point you might as well go with a C1 or P2Max.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
C1 and P2MAx are not easily transferable from bike to bike.
No, I do not want to gamble, hence the question. Stages G2 works better than G1, 4iii looks it works as well a S G2. However looking at the best of the two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,006 Posts
C1 and P2MAx are not easily transferable from bike to bike.
No, I do not want to gamble, hence the question. Stages G2 works better than G1, 4iii looks it works as well a S G2. However looking at the best of the two.
You undo the exact same bolts to move a stages as you would a c1 or p2max. So you're comparing removing one crank arm versus two.

Seems a silly comparison.

If that's your main concern, a powertap g3 is much easier to switch from bike to bike, and I'd trust that way more than a Stages or 4iii. Seems to be you're trying to decide between two duds, but whatever works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
You undo the exact same bolts to move a stages as you would a c1 or p2max. So you're comparing removing one crank arm versus two.

Seems a silly comparison.

If that's your main concern, a powertap g3 is much easier to switch from bike to bike, and I'd trust that way more than a Stages or 4iii. Seems to be you're trying to decide between two duds, but whatever works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibycOXD-Mw0
 

·
Pack Fodder.
Joined
·
1,871 Posts
I swapped Quarqs from bike to bike for years, although rarely was I in that much of a hurry. As long as the bottom bracket standards are the same, it's really not that much of a big deal.

The Powertap wasn't significantly quicker when looked a from a practical point of view, although it didn't require any "special tools" to swap.

The Stages was pretty darn fast, with only one bolt (for the Rival version). Again, it requires similar cranksets to transfer quickly.

Pedals wouldn't be significantly faster, especially the somewhat finicky Garmins.

The real question is- how fast do you really need to swap power meters? I used to do it all of the time at stage races (multi-stage days) and still have plenty of time for whatever else I needed to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Yes, removing two crank arms every week, is not what I want.
Not to mentioned if I want to travel with my powermeter, shoes and helmets only.

Also I have Cannondales, one with BB30 and other with BB30A bottom brackets. Both need different adaptors, which I do not want to play around with.

I want somethig that won't take too much time, such as P1 pedals or Stages/Vector.

Therefore my question is "STAGES or 4iii", not "STAGES/4iii or alternative."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,580 Posts
Stages Gen 2 does not suffer from the issues with the Gen 1. I had two of the Gen 1's and Stages upgraded both of them to Gen 2 under warranty. I have thousands of miles on the Gen 2's, many of them in the rain, with zero issues.

Mine are all currently paired to a Wahoo ELEMNT and have worked flawlessly (with the current Wahoo firmware).

I can't speak to the 4III/cateye in comparison, as I've never even seen one in person, but you can feel comfortable with the Stages from an integrity standpoint, and from a support/customer service standpoint (Stages stands behind their stuff!).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,006 Posts
Therefore my question is "STAGES or 4iii", not "STAGES/4iii or alternative."
It's really silly that you get so bent out of shape when you're the one asking for everyone's advice because you're incapable of coming to your own conclusions. Have you not realized that no one cares what you do or do not buy, or if you buy at all? Just get on with and over it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,238 Posts
Seems to be you're trying to decide between two duds, but whatever works.
harsh and inappropriate comment. 'duds'? really dude? seems more like you've just got a case of 'what I bought is the best' bias

Stages is widely used and endorsed and reviewed and respected. An excellent power meter, and the company did a great service delivering it at so much lower cost for years now. Hey, they even win Tours de france with it.

as for swapping .. sometimes the two bikes you're sharing it with have completely different cranks/gearing. I used to swap my Stages from my bike with triple 105 9 speed and disk brakes, to my double compact ultegra w rim brakes. No powertap nor Quarq can do that. Might even be able to swap a Stages road left crank to a mtn bike crankset I think? Only thing I can't do is easily put my stages on my 25 yr old bike, unless I also swap out the C record BB, LOL, though I could use my wife's Garmin PM.
 

·
Pack Fodder.
Joined
·
1,871 Posts
Stages is widely used and endorsed and reviewed and respected. An excellent power meter, and the company did a great service delivering it at so much lower cost for years now. Hey, they even win Tours de france with it.
To be fair, what they're using on Sky is not the same as what you get on the commercial market. Maybe in a year or two.

If it were the same product as I pre-ordered when it was first introduced, I wouldn't think much of it either. I bought mine for 'cross and it failed on the first rainy ride I took it on (battery cover). The measurement differences between it and my Quarqs were just too significant in various ranges (I installed it on a Quarq and ran two Edge 500s).

However, they were steadily upgrading the firmware. They sent me the improved 1st gen battery cover at no charge. They learned and improved it, to the point it is now a fairly robust product. The customer service I experienced was top-notch. I don't have a problem recommending it to someone as their first power meter.

Am I going to get another one? Probably not. I have far too many power meters as it is, and my L/R imbalance makes a left-leg only PM skew the data a bit. If I only had one. what would it matter? I wouldn't know the difference, and I would train by the numbers the Stages provided and probably make similar progress.

Again, my advice is to go with the one with the best track record and overall support. I'm not familiar with 4iiii enough to comment on their product, so I would have to defer to someone like DC Rainmaker. To be honest, I've never seen one in person.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
439 Posts
harsh and inappropriate comment. 'duds'? really dude? seems more like you've just got a case of 'what I bought is the best' bias

Stages is widely used and endorsed and reviewed and respected. An excellent power meter, and the company did a great service delivering it at so much lower cost for years now. Hey, they even win Tours de france with it.

as for swapping .. sometimes the two bikes you're sharing it with have completely different cranks/gearing. I used to swap my Stages from my bike with triple 105 9 speed and disk brakes, to my double compact ultegra w rim brakes. No powertap nor Quarq can do that. Might even be able to swap a Stages road left crank to a mtn bike crankset I think? Only thing I can't do is easily put my stages on my 25 yr old bike, unless I also swap out the C record BB, LOL, though I could use my wife's Garmin PM.
Having been a powermeter user since 1998 (SRM for 18 years), I have long paid attention to pm product development and user reported experiences. The Stages product has had far more problems for users than any other product. The 4iii is too new to have much in the way of consumer feedback to judge its capability.

BTW, even though Stages sponsor Team Sky and they win TdFs with the product on their bikes, I have heard many times that they often still use SRM pm's in training.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,238 Posts
Having been a powermeter user since 1998 (SRM for 18 years), I have long paid attention to pm product development and user reported experiences. The Stages product has had far more problems for users than any other product. The 4iii is too new to have much in the way of consumer feedback to judge its capability.

BTW, even though Stages sponsor Team Sky and they win TdFs with the product on their bikes, I have heard many times that they often still use SRM pm's in training.
Stages only had problems wth their first version, the battery door seal (they blame on users not being careful seating it). completely solved by gen 2. have not read of any problem with gen2. I use my gen2 half the year in the rain and mud, in rainforest.
 

·
Pack Fodder.
Joined
·
1,871 Posts
Quarq went through the same problems early in their development. I've met more than one person who swears they will never buy another Quarq because of the experience.

All I can do is speak from my own experience here.

My Quarq S975 has been rock-solid for 6 years now. I've completely submerged it, ridden it in the rain more days than many here can fathom, and generally treated it like crap. The only issue I ever had with it was the battery terminals, and bending them back up fixed that issue. Some people had less luck.

The Quarq Rikens I have have been problem free, which seems to be the general trend of the Elsa/Riken-era Quarqs.

My SRMs have been a mixed bag. I've replaced the batteries on both, which is more involved than on a Quarq but not overly difficult if you have soldering skills. You can pick up a used wireless SRM with bad batteries off of eBay for $500, send it in and have them check it out for $100, and have a fully-tested, "gold standard" power meter for less than a lot of "cheap" powermeters. The second one's control board failed, killing the ANT+ signal and requiring a $350 repair bill. That said, I really like them and have one on my TT bike and one on my foul-weather/commuter/off-season/travel bike.

Point is, there are problems with just about any power meter out there- especially early in their development cycle. The fact that companies like Quarq and Stages keep refining their products (often at no cost to existing users) shows that they're in this for the long haul. Some of the other solutions won't be out there in a few years, as their projected market share doesn't materialize or a down year or two stifles their development. Will even large companies like Garmin or Polar with substantial investments to date stay in? I fully expect established players like SRM, Quarq, PowerTap, and even Stages to hang around.

When an orphan powermeter dies on the road, does it make any sound?

Get what suits your needs and pocketbook, and stay away from Kickstarter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,006 Posts
harsh and inappropriate comment. 'duds'? really dude? seems more like you've just got a case of 'what I bought is the best' bias
Hardly. I imagine my equipment costs are a very small percentage of most.

I'm functional to the core. Neither your finances nor mine have much bearing on the matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
456 Posts
I currently have a quarq (2 yrs of heavy use and its been flawless) and I'm in the market for a second unit which will be a single leg. Stages, or Pioneer- which ever I can get the better deal on.

I have to chuckle a bit about the l/r imbalance and how some comment the data is skewed? You are always measuring output from your left leg which the software doubles. This is totally consistent to the individual user and perfectly fine to train with this "skewed" data..
 

·
Pack Fodder.
Joined
·
1,871 Posts
I have to chuckle a bit about the l/r imbalance and how some comment the data is skewed? You are always measuring output from your left leg which the software doubles. This is totally consistent to the individual user and perfectly fine to train with this "skewed" data..
Ummmm...

Let's say, for the same effort, your Quarq reads 220w and your Stages reads 200w. Great, I'll just add 20 and be perfectly fine. But then you go to 240w and your Stages reads a 25W difference. Then you get fatigued and your Stages is down 40w. The difference is not always linear and it is not always consistent, because you're measuring at the spider (both legs together) vs at the left crankarm (left leg doubled). For many people, this is the weaker leg. For me, it's fairly pronounced- especially during harder efforts.

It's consistent to the user and consistent to the measurement standard, but is a different standard. I discovered my own L/R imbalances and how they affected the data when I installed a Stages on my Quarq and ran them parallel for a couple months. The differences in WKO+ CTL, TSB, and ATL were pretty substantial.

Now, let's say I used the Stages during the week for training and the Quarq on weekends. To do the planned workouts in established ranges, I would be working much harder to achieve the same data points. The analytic software would not register the increased workload, thus not properly calculate fatigue (among other things). When it came to the weekend, I would might not be able to meet workout parameters because of that fatigue. Over time this will present a problem.

I was going to use my Stages for 'cross only, but it died on the first rainy ride I took it on, I sold it, and moved on to other Quarqs and SRMs (which are more consistent standards).

If a left-leg power meter is the only standard used, it's perfectly fine for 99% of users. It's when you mix them that things can get skewed.

...unless it's an eWang, with no analysis of the data performed. Then... well... you do you.
 
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top