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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good advice from Bob Stapleton...

Landis' presence at the Amgen Tour of California somewhat overshadowed the actual racing. Tony Martin's stage victory and Michael Rogers' defense of the overall race lead made it a great day for HTC-Columbia, yet most media reports focused on Landis.

HTC-Columbia team owner Bob Stapleton offered support to Landis but called on people to look forward and move on from the past.

"I have tons of sympathy for Floyd," Stapleton told ESPN. "I don't think anybody has suffered more who's been involved in a situation like this. It's destroyed his entire life. He has my sympathy, but I don't want him to take the focus off the good work that's been done in this sport and by these young athletes."

"He's increased the audience, but he's ruined the message. The message is this sport is part of a healthy lifestyle for 160 million people in the U.S. and Europe alone. He's talking about the history of the sport, but this sport has a good future and it's in the Tony Martins and the Mark Cavendishs and the Tyler Farrars, the guys who are growing up in a different generation of the sport. This sport has made remarkable, objective progress since Floyd Landis."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landis-makes-an-appearance-at-the-amgen-tour-of-california
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
den bakker said:
wow, 1998 called. They want their argument back.
Together with Basso, a class rider in the new clean generation if I recall correctly.
After those previous scandals there was a hope that the morals of the sport would change.

But this time they're not relying on the rider's good will. They have a system that is squeezing doping itself - the window to dope is getting smaller and smaller due to the blood passport.

I agree with those that say the sport has moved on and it doesn't serve any good purpose to have this spectacle clouding out everything. If Floyd feels some personal release in admitting to his doping then that's great, but it really isn't necessary to take down the sport with him by focusing on the past and getting the police involved.

We are talking about sport here after all. It's not fair on the clean riders today. I bet if we could poll them they would be against this.

If you don't like Armstrong then don't buy his stuff or support him - but don't ruin cycling just to get at one man.

Look what Floyd has done to the ToC?
 

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Right, this financial bubble is different.
It's the same people running the show, the same sh!t will happen again.
I thought the major doping problems ended with the EPO test? That's what I was told.


Rex Hunter said:
After those previous scandals there was a hope that the morals of the sport would change.

But this time they're not relying on the rider's good will. They have a system that is squeezing doping itself - the window to dope is getting smaller and smaller due to the blood passport.

I agree with those that say the sport has moved on and it doesn't serve any good purpose to have this spectacle clouding out everything. If Floyd feels some personal release in admitting to his doping then that's great, but it really isn't necessary to take down the sport with him by focusing on the past and getting the police involved.

We are talking about sport here after all. It's not fair on the clean riders today. I bet if we could poll them they would be against this.

If you don't like Armstrong then don't buy his stuff or support him - but don't ruin cycling just to get at one man.

Look what Floyd has done to the ToC?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
den bakker said:
Right, this financial bubble is different.
It's the same people running the show, the same sh!t will happen again.
I thought the major doping problems ended with the EPO test? That's what I was told.
The blood passport is better than any test. It's already ensured that there is a much more level playing field at the top end of the sport - the results are there. This technology is improving every year.

There is no need to go back a decade from a different era just because people have a grudge against a hand full of riders and one rider in particular.
 

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Rex Hunter said:
The blood passport is better than any test. It's already ensured that there is a much more level playing field at the top end of the sport - the results are there. This technology is improving every year.

There is no need to go back a decade from a different era just because people have a grudge against a hand full of riders and one rider in particular.
Why does this last sentence really sound to me like "too big to fail"? :)
 

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Rex Hunter said:
The blood passport is better than any test. It's already ensured that there is a much more level playing field at the top end of the sport - the results are there. This technology is improving every year.

There is no need to go back a decade from a different era just because people have a grudge against a hand full of riders and one rider in particular.
Wait, what results from the blood passport? Have any riders been suspended due to their blood passport fluctuations?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
SilasCL said:
Wait, what results from the blood passport? Have any riders been suspended due to their blood passport fluctuations?
We can already see that hematocrit levels are well below 50% mark - very different to the previous era - which means the riders are being extremely cautious. Pellizotti of course has been suspended whilst an investigation is going on this year. Riders are taking note.

This after only two years of data. It's a system that by it's nature gets better every year, and has vastly leveled the playing field.

Let the sport clean itself up now and end the witch hunt against riders from the past. Where does it end?

It is said that Eddie Mercx introduced Armstrong to doping - are we going to arrest him?

Lets have a south african post apartheid approach and not a McCarthyite purge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
orange_julius said:
Why does this last sentence really sound to me like "too big to fail"? :)
Most people agree that operation puerto has gone on too long and too much time has past, and that is only going back to 2006. So we now want to rake even further back over stuff that may or may not have been going on eight years ago?

I'm afraid this is not about anti doping for a lot of people. They despise Armstrong and his charity and want to see him taken down at all costs. They're quite happy for all the other alleged dopers on Landis list to go free as long as they testify against Armstrong - that gives the game away.

These people are not fans of the sport - they have a vendetta against one person.
 

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Rex Hunter said:
Most people agree that operation puerto has gone on too long and too much time has past, and that is only going back to 2006. So we now want to rake even further back over stuff that may or may not have been going on eight years ago?

I'm afraid this is not about anti doping for a lot of people. They despise Armstrong and his charity and want to see him taken down at all costs. They're quite happy for all the other alleged dopers on Landis list to go free as long as they testify against Armstrong - that gives the game away.

These people are not fans of the sport - they have a vendetta against one person.
You forgot they love cancer as well. :rolleyes:
by the way, values were well below 50% before the blood pass. (50% is a red herring anyway and not what the blood pass is about. But you knew that of course).
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
den bakker said:
You forgot they love cancer as well. :rolleyes:
But they are pretty loony. Do you ever read the clinic over at cycling new? There is no doubt a lot of these guys would rather ban pro cycling than leave Armstrong alone. I was just reading a comment from "Dr. Maserati" that Lance was even responsible for reducing the Tour of Ireland from five days to three - these are some hardcore cranks.

by the way, values were well below 50% before the blood pass. (50% is a red herring anyway and not what the blood pass is about. But you knew that of course).
But they could go to that level with impunity if they chose to and many did - now nobody does. There is an argument that they should have left that rule and stop testing for EPO - which would make it fairer and make for more exciting racing other three weeks, but I digress...
 

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Rex Hunter said:
We can already see that hematocrit levels are well below 50% mark - very different to the previous era - which means the riders are being extremely cautious. Pellizotti of course has been suspended whilst an investigation is going on this year. Riders are taking note.
We can see that? Who are we? I don't have access to Contador's, DiLuca's or Valverde's blood passport, do you? They tested for 50% hematocrit for a while now, well before the biological passport. One has nothing to do with the other.
This after only two years of data. It's a system that by it's nature gets better every year, and has vastly leveled the playing field.
You say all this with a lot of certainty, considering there have been no doping convictions from this new system. If the playing field is level, why are the same riders winning that won before the biological passport?

Let the sport clean itself up now and end the witch hunt against riders from the past. Where does it end?

It is said that Eddie Mercx introduced Armstrong to doping - are we going to arrest him?

Lets have a south african post apartheid approach and not a McCarthyite purge.
You say to end the witch hunt against riders from the past. Only one guy on Landis' list is a rider from the past, everyone else currently races professionally.
 

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SilasCL said:
You say to end the witch hunt against riders from the past. Only one guy on Landis' list is a rider from the past, everyone else currently races professionally.
But Landis has no information on those riders after 2006?

So wouldn't their current passport testing be acceptable enough to prove their lack of doping?
 

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robdamanii said:
But Landis has no information on those riders after 2006?

So wouldn't their current passport testing be acceptable enough to prove their lack of doping?
By your warped logic they never tested positive, so they never doped, ergo all statements by Floyd are irrelevant.

Have fun going down that road.
 

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I think it cycling should forget the past and look towards the future. Digging up old bones just hurts the future of the sport.

I guess to put it simply-those who doped in the past got away with it. Those racing now if they get caught they will be punished.

I think that would be best for cycling but the doping forum would be less active
 

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JimT said:
I think it cycling should forget the past and look towards the future. Digging up old bones just hurts the future of the sport.

I guess to put it simply-those who doped in the past got away with it. Those racing now if they get caught they will be punished.

I think that would be best for cycling but the doping forum would be less active
again, that is a recipe for chaos. you can't forgive the sins of the past just because addressing them is somehow "hurting the sport". beyond that, what about those in that era who _have_ paid a price? how do you propose making them right?
 

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Stapleton makes a ton of sense there.

I am very interested in what Floyd has to say. His timing and motive are really suspect however.

Looking at it objectively, I can't believe that Floyd cares as much about the future cycling as he cares about lashing out and airing skeletons since he couldn't get his way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
SilasCL said:
We can see that? Who are we? I don't have access to Contador's, DiLuca's or Valverde's blood passport, do you? They tested for 50% hematocrit for a while now, well before the biological passport. One has nothing to do with the other.
Unless AC and others have a permenent hematocrit of close to 50% then they simply could not get away with it. There is no doubt the passport has created a more level playing field.

You say all this with a lot of certainty, considering there have been no doping convictions from this new system. If the playing field is level, why are the same riders winning that won before the biological passport?
Some are, some aren't. Some are winning by less, some are closer to winning.

Riders already have been suspended based only on their profile. I'm not saying cheating is not going on but it has to be at a far lower level than in the past. Good news. The passport is getting better every year.

You say to end the witch hunt against riders from the past. Only one guy on Landis' list is a rider from the past, everyone else currently races professionally.
They are all allegations from the early part of this decade, and he appears to be trying to get them all immunity if they testify against Armstrong. Clearly it's a vendetta.

Landis should blame himself for his own predictament and not try to drag down the sport to get out Armstrong.
 
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