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I have the race and training bikes covered already. Now, there is room for the cool Italian steel bike and trying to decide between a Mondonico Foco (still available although maybe not building anymore but I think his son might be) and a Pegoretti Duende. This bike will be for fun and both have geometries that will fit fine. Anyone ridden either or both that can give a recommendation and/or comparison?
 

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I have some familiarity with Mondonico since I was a former Torelli dealer. The Mondonicos are very well made, classic steel racing frames. The geometry is not as severe as some. So, it will make a nice riding bike without lacking stability. There is a certain mystique to Italian frames, but I believe that the best made lugged steel frames today come from the US. There are quite a few artisan builders that can build you something similar or something far beyond a Mondonico: hand-carved and filed lugs with any level of detailing you'd like. Or you could go with a Waterford. I really believe that they make the finest production lugged steel frames in the world (and not just because they make my Herons).

There is nothing wrong with Mondonico or Pegoretti. It's just that there are so many great builders right here in the US. If you do decide to go Italian, these are two that would be at the top of my list. Unfortunately, there are many "big name" Italian builders who ship poor quality frames, but I don't think that you'll be disappointed with either Antonio or Dario (but consider the Luigino - it's much prettier than the Duende).
 
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HeronTodd said:
I have some familiarity with Mondonico since I was a former Torelli dealer. The Mondonicos are very well made, classic steel racing frames. The geometry is not as severe as some. So, it will make a nice riding bike without lacking stability. There is a certain mystique to Italian frames, but I believe that the best made lugged steel frames today come from the US. There are quite a few artisan builders that can build you something similar or something far beyond a Mondonico: hand-carved and filed lugs with any level of detailing you'd like. Or you could go with a Waterford. I really believe that they make the finest production lugged steel frames in the world (and not just because they make my Herons).

There is nothing wrong with Mondonico or Pegoretti. It's just that there are so many great builders right here in the US. If you do decide to go Italian, these are two that would be at the top of my list. Unfortunately, there are many "big name" Italian builders who ship poor quality frames, but I don't think that you'll be disappointed with either Antonio or Dario (but consider the Luigino - it's much prettier than the Duende).
Well, there is the Mariposa..........

Nothing wrong with that. ;)
 

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HeronTodd said:
I have some familiarity with Mondonico since I was a former Torelli dealer. The Mondonicos are very well made, classic steel racing frames. The geometry is not as severe as some. So, it will make a nice riding bike without lacking stability. There is a certain mystique to Italian frames, but I believe that the best made lugged steel frames today come from the US. There are quite a few artisan builders that can build you something similar or something far beyond a Mondonico: hand-carved and filed lugs with any level of detailing you'd like. Or you could go with a Waterford. I really believe that they make the finest production lugged steel frames in the world (and not just because they make my Herons).

There is nothing wrong with Mondonico or Pegoretti. It's just that there are so many great builders right here in the US. If you do decide to go Italian, these are two that would be at the top of my list. Unfortunately, there are many "big name" Italian builders who ship poor quality frames, but I don't think that you'll be disappointed with either Antonio or Dario (but consider the Luigino - it's much prettier than the Duende).
You might want to jump on a Luigino, I think that it will be a limited production run. Something to do with availability of lugs. Have you considered Belgian steel? The 7-11 Merckx Corsa replica frames are sweet. Todd is right, Dario Pegoretti builds a nice frame. I have a Fina (aluminum) that I bought to race, but I really love the bike. Usually a race bike is something that I can afford to crash and not get emotional about, but I would probably need some medication if I crashed mine.
 

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Mondonico to sell

If you are interested, I've clearing out my bike room and am contemplating selling a used but in excellent condition Mondonico frame. I was going to put it on the classifieds here next week. I can send pictures.

A+

Philippe
 

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I'm with Todd, buy USA first if it is good steel you are looking for.

The Brits and some Japanese are still building with steel on a regular basis as opposed to the Italians who touch steel only once in a great while. There is a big difference in skill sets between brazing steel and tig welding aluminum.

Go with the folks that never stopped doing it.
 

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i was drooling over a Nagasawa just yesterday, I would love a singlespeed/fixed gear/track frame of his to build up. Am going to Japan to visit my brother there next spring, maybe I will see where his shop is and if he gives tours or something.

I just bought an Croll off ebay NOS and man am I happy with it, lugged, steel fork - built up with what I would consider regular parts it is 19.5 lbs.
 

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MB1 said:
The Brits and some Japanese are still building with steel on a regular basis as opposed to the Italians who touch steel only once in a great while. There is a big difference in skill sets between brazing steel and tig welding aluminum.

Go with the folks that never stopped doing it.
Dario build in mainly steel. He only builds in aluminium because some people insist.

As far as his steel credentials go, they trump almost any US builder other than IF as he is the guy who developed much of Dedacciai's range. EOM16.5, SAT14.5 etc were first used by Sig Pegoretti, and only after he passed it was anyone else able to use it. Plus he has always brazed too.
 

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ultimobici said:
Dario build in mainly steel. He only builds in aluminium because some people insist.

As far as his steel credentials go, they trump almost any US builder other than IF as he is the guy who developed much of Dedacciai's range. EOM16.5, SAT14.5 etc were first used by Sig Pegoretti, and only after he passed it was anyone else able to use it. Plus he has always brazed too.
He only brazes the Luigino and Palosanto, everything else is tigged. Dario Pegoretti was one of the pioneers in tig welding light steel frames. Look at some old shots of Indurain's "Pinarello".
 

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ultimobici said:
Dario build in mainly steel. He only builds in aluminium because some people insist.

As far as his steel credentials go, they trump almost any US builder other than IF as he is the guy who developed much of Dedacciai's range. EOM16.5, SAT14.5 etc were first used by Sig Pegoretti, and only after he passed it was anyone else able to use it. Plus he has always brazed too.
Waterford's Marc Muller isn't very good at self-promotion, but he has been involved in the development of steel tubing, lugs, and frame designs for a number of other companies. Marc does the work, they take the credit. He is the reason that Waterford is so good. There are a number of builders that are good brazers, but not many have the technical background.

It's great that Dedacciai has stepped up to offer steel tubing. The more the better, but there isn't anything really unique in their steel line-up. Reynolds and True Temper are leading the way in innovation, but there is a lot more that could be done. Steel doesn't sell enough to justify a lot of development right now.
 

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bigbill said:
He only brazes the Luigino and Palosanto, everything else is tigged. Dario Pegoretti was one of the pioneers in tig welding light steel frames. Look at some old shots of Indurain's "Pinarello".
Meant that he has brazed all along inspite of pioneering TIG in the late 80's and early 90's. If I had to chose, I would take a Marcelo over a Luigino, because I ride in all conditions and a Luigino has to have something like a 50th Anniversary Group on it. Having seen the original gold Luigino in the flesh I couldn't put any thing modern on it.
 
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