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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The cities doing some major configuration changes to some of the downtown streets. A major downtown street that was made a one way street is being re-configuried back to a two way street. That change is displacing some existing bike infastructure (maybe). One of the proposals is, illustrated below, is to put some bike lanes on an adjacent street. I've never seen a configuration like this and was wondering if anyone has anything like in their region and if so, any opinions on how it works in your area.

Certainly makes a new and different kind of door zone than I'm used to.
 

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I assume you are asking about cyclists being routed between cars and the curb/sidewalk.

You see them all over the place in Europe (Montreal too if I recall correctly). There is a curb between the cars and the bike lane.

Folks are used to them and they are fine although slow going as cyclists don't much room to dodge trash/pot holes/broken glass/folks getting out of cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
MB1 said:
I assume you are asking about cyclists being routed between cars and the curb/sidewalk.

You see them all over the place in Europe (Montreal too if I recall correctly). There is a curb between the cars and the bike lane.

Folks are used to them and they are fine although slow going as cyclists don't much room to dodge trash/pot holes/broken glass/folks getting out of cars.
Yes.
I don't think they are planning any type of elevated curb or barrier between the bike lane and traffic lane. In the peak hours it will just like dozens of other bike lanes we have, with the bike lane on the outside curbs and traffic moving on your left. The same dynamics of auto traffic drifting into the bike lane and the ability of the cyclis to get out of the lane at will will be in play and I have plenty of experience of the pros and cons of those types of configurations.

At non-peak times, with non moving, but not completely fixed automobiles on your left introduces variables I'm not accustomed to and would like hear others opinions on how it works. There's still a public comment period in play. This is the 4th or 5th idea put forward. They've been getting better with each one, so I'm not saying I think this is a terrible solution, just trying to get a feel for it's pros and cons from people who have something like it.

Thanks
Scot
 

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If there isn't a second curb between those outside parking spots and the bike lane you know some drivers are going to park against the curb and block the bike lane. It only takes one of those to kill the usefulness of the bike lane.

That is why all the places that use that configuration have the second curb.
 

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MB1 said:
I assume you are asking about cyclists being routed between cars and the curb/sidewalk.

You see them all over the place in Europe (Montreal too if I recall correctly). There is a curb between the cars and the bike lane.

Folks are used to them and they are fine although slow going as cyclists don't much room to dodge trash/pot holes/broken glass/folks getting out of cars.
hate 'em, but the paths between parked cars and sidewalks are even worse.

 

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I imagine hell being a bike lane much like this (between street parking and the sidewalk with curbs on both sides) with a mini van full of kids unloading on every block exactly half way between every flashing red traffic light for eternity. ...of course I would also be on my dream bike and have an amazing tailwind.

Honestly tho, I've never seen a lane like this. The only drawback I see is that while most drivers think and hesitate when opening their door into traffic to avoid having it ripped off by passing car. Most passengers don't because they're not use to fast moving objects on the right.
Also with two curbs anything suddenly blocking the lane is harder to get around.
 

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As noted above Montreal has been using this design for some time. My understanding is that it has not been overly problematic. For example, one of the main car and bicycle corridors in Montreal, rue ste-urbain, uses this configuration and experiences less problems at intersections then some separate grade bicycle "tracks" used in the area.

In order to minimize probelms you can use use a colour coded scheme on the pavement in the bicycle lane for this section (like what New York City did with its green coloured cycling lanes), as well as increased signage to note the presence of the lane as well as the right of way to cyclists.
 

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It's a way for the city to say, we don't want bikes in the way of the real traffic...cars.
Road bikes traveling at speed will still ride in the street and that will upset the automobile drivers.
Crosswalks will remain problematic as bikes will seemingly appear out of nowhere.
You were better off in the street.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hooben said:
It's a way for the city to say, we don't want bikes in the way of the real traffic...cars.
Road bikes traveling at speed will still ride in the street and that will upset the automobile drivers.
Crosswalks will remain problematic as bikes will seemingly appear out of nowhere.
You were better off in the street.
That's one way to look at it.

Either the message is
we don't want bikes in the way of the real traffic...cars.
or
The streets of our cities and towns ought to be for everyone, whether young or old, motorist or bicyclist, walker or wheelchair user, bus rider or shopkeeper. But too many of our streets are designed only for speeding cars, or worse, creeping traffic jams. They’re unsafe for people on foot or bike — and unpleasant for everybody.
 

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While it is better than the current suicide lane (assuming it is still there), why are they converting it to a two way street? Or are they aiming for gridlock for its "traffic calming" effect?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
filtersweep said:
While it is better than the current suicide lane (assuming it is still there), why are they converting it to a two way street? Or are they aiming for gridlock for its "traffic calming" effect?
Filter,

While not an interest to everyone, you would probably be interested in your old home town.
This is an 18 meg PDF download, so dial up users, be warned.
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/public-works/CIP/HennepinAve/Recommended_Layout_(18M).pdf

The "suicide lane" is still there but will be removed as part of this re-configuration. The configuration comes from the desire to return Hennepin Ave to a two way street. Where right now essentially Henn is the one way north bound and 1st is the one way southbound (as you know but for benefit of other readers).

Take a look at the proposal for Hennepin, sharrows in a bus and bike ONLY lane. I don't know if you lived in the TC's long enough ago to remember when Nic Ave was a Bus and Bike only Ave. I'm personally a little skeptical that this arrangement will survive the first couple of cyclist squashings. It didn't on Nic Ave, so I don't have high hopes for this proposed treatment of Henn Ave. Which peaks my interest in this configuration on 1st, since I personally suspect that it is what we will have left after they ban bikes from Henn as they did years ago on Nic.

Scot
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
And for those curious about what the Suicide Lane is, here it is:


Three lanes of one way Northbound vehicle traffic. One lane of Southbound Bus and Taxi only traffic. Sandwiched between the two is a mid street two way on street bike lane.

You can pretty much commit "head on" suicide at will from either lane or perhaps by accident but it would likely be ruled suicide in any event since you were on a bike. :)

The lanes end abruptly with no warning on both the North and South end leaving you pedaling down the double yellow between same direction and on-coming traffic. It's a great asset to community :)
 

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cyclist are going to get hit..........but it does make for a larger lane for the outside lane. and isn't that the point?
 
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