Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
1 - 20 of 94 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
About 150,000 people waited in line to put down deposits on a car that they haven't test driven, and won't be available for more than a year. And based on what I can see, the car is over-priced starting at $35K (at least compared to similar cars, ICE or hybrid). So please tell me, what's the appeal? Is it a status thing? It certainly doesn't seem to be economical given today's gas prices unless you drive a lot of miles. And if you do drive a lot of miles its limited range makes it impractical.
 

·
δanned
Joined
·
7,005 Posts
Depending on your location, it can be a feasible thing to own. California offers very high tax rebates for buying EVs right now that were once reserved for hybrids, so the net prices can come down to that of a traditional ICE sedan. Now, the range isn't that stellar (200 miles), but again if you live in an area with a lot of charging stations and/or you don't do much driving, this is very appealing to those who want to stop paying for gas and oil changes entirely. Plus, there are other repair costs you won't have versus a traditional ICE car. It's still not that practical for the typical middle class person to own one, but we can expect capitalism to take its toll and gradually make them more affordable to the common man. Personally, I'm on the fence about the aesthetics of the Model 3. It looks like they ripped off the current generation Ford Focus and took cues from a Porsche 911 as well. The 18" touch screen is cool because of its size, but it looks like it was simply bolted to the dashboard vice integrated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
I put a deposit down on one. I didn't stand in line or anything, just kinda clicked through it while chewing on my morning bagel. I read through the agreement beginning to end and figured eh what the hell.

Word is the interior wasn't finished (faux vents, etc) so don't worry about that generic screen bolted in the middle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
IT should have been a wagon thats all I have to say.
word is there may be a crossover/wagon variant based on the 3 platform. but the more I thik about the delivery date and the required tooling the less likely that this is truth.
 

·
Doesn't like subtitles
Joined
·
3,808 Posts
I have had a chance to look at the details on the car yet but I think it appeals to so many people for different reasons. I am a Model S owner, reserved mine 3 1/2 years ago when there were only a couple of thousand on the road and never seeing one other than sitting in the store. I did test drive one before delivery to decide what options I wanted.

I'm sure some want one for the status thing, but many others I'm sure are in the boat I was in. I'd wanted an electric car for a long time but didn't want a car I couldn't drive outside the city limits, and needed one I could throw one or two bikes in the back. I was in the fortunate position in that Model S wasn't a big financial stretch but if so I would have had to wait for the Model 3. 200 mile range will cover 90% of most people's driving. If I can talk my wife into it, I'm going to reserve a Model 3 for her, the Model S is already our road trip car.
 

·
Adorable Furry Hombre
Joined
·
30,962 Posts
Depending on your location, it can be a feasible thing to own. California offers very high tax rebates for buying EVs right now that were once reserved for hybrids, so the net prices can come down to that of a traditional ICE sedan. Now, the range isn't that stellar (200 miles), but again if you live in an area with a lot of charging stations and/or you don't do much driving, this is very appealing to those who want to stop paying for gas and oil changes entirely. Plus, there are other repair costs you won't have versus a traditional ICE car. It's still not that practical for the typical middle class person to own one, but we can expect capitalism to take its toll and gradually make them more affordable to the common man. Personally, I'm on the fence about the aesthetics of the Model 3. It looks like they ripped off the current generation Ford Focus and took cues from a Porsche 911 as well. The 18" touch screen is cool because of its size, but it looks like it was simply bolted to the dashboard vice integrated.
It should be noted at this point that California has some of the higher electricity billing rates in the world. As such you may actually spend more money driving an EV than driving an ICE. For example the EPA calculated the cost to drive a Chevy Volt 25 miles....

On ICE: $1.70
EV: $1.17

However that was with two massive assumptions. Firstly assuming the cost of gasoline was $2.51/gallon. Secondly assuming that electricity cost $0.13 per kWhr. Now, in California the cost of electricity can be $0.40/kWhr depending on your usage "tier"....so that "$1.17" may actually be "$3.51", as their assumption about the cost of electricity was off by a factor of 3X.
 

·
Matnlely Dregaend
Joined
·
4,937 Posts
Every car incentive program winds up getting metamorphosed into something it was not intended to encourage. Look at Flex Fuel pickup trucks... But Tesla is smart to sell the Model 3 to West coast customers first. California buyers will get a $10,000 tax credit / rebate on the $35,000 price tag. For $25,000 there is nothing better to buy by a long shot. Combine that with California subsidizing the electricity rate for EV charging and you'd be a fool not to buy one. Same thing goes for Colorado and Illinois.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
701 Posts
I'm sure there were more purchases on-line (of the 150K) than in line. Especially since there are only 215 world-wide Tesla store locations.

The appeal is to never pay for gas again and for some states to receive as much as a $10K (Federal & State tax incentive). For folks who already take advantage of solar PV panels it totally makes sense.

I'm still on the fence since the price with options will most likely be into the $50K and up range plus the fact that I no longer have a commute so our cars are mainly used for long trips. Having to stop for 1-1/2+ hrs to charge after driving 200 miles does not sound appealing to me (and that's if no one is already using the Superchargers at those locations where you need to charge).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,400 Posts
I don't believe 35k for the car is over priced. It (note that the interior design and features have not been completed yet) will be optioned similar to the Audi A4, Mercedes C class and BMW 3 series, which the Model S will compete against. They all start around $35k to $40k before options. Add in the 7500 Fed rebate (only for the first 200k sold), you have a solid car with tremendous options (the tech package that costs $3k to $5k in any of the competitors) is pretty much standard in the Tesla.

Add to that that 0-60 times range from 4 to 6 seconds depending on options, or 2 seconds if they put the ludicrous mode in it (basically a really big ass capacitor for $10k), it beats all of its competitors.

Downside is of course the range, but based on Tesla's supercharger network (which all tesla owners can use for free) across the US, and for me, around $5 per charge in MD at current rates for a P85 (I do not have one, I test drove a P90D the other day as we are replacing my C63 which gets 12 mpg on a good day). Tesla however is apparently standing up the Super Charger stations on a fairly regular basis (the sales guy said every 24 hours, but I'll take that with a grain of salt), so range anxiety should not be an issue.

The only thing I don't like about the model 3.. that nose.. even a fake grill, give it something, it is just ugly as sin.
 

·
Seat's not level
Joined
·
19,372 Posts
$24K (after incentives) for a car that would be our third would be ideal. We have the range with our other vehicles to do longer trips. This would be an around the town car. The 200 mile range would be sufficient for a third vehicle.

As for a status symbol... I really don't give an F about a vehicle being a status symbol. Unless you all are impressed by a 2000 Dodge Dakota quad cab and a 2003 Honday civic.

I do have a friend with a Nissan Leaf. Lives in Boulder and the car probably will never see the city limit sigh. As a second vehicle for his family it's worked out great.

I'm not sure I'd have an electric as my only option living in Colorado, but for a second or third car. It would be fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
Seems ideal for me given that my work has free charging stations. However, 18 months is a long time, who knows what other manufacturers have planned?
 

·
Adorable Furry Hombre
Joined
·
30,962 Posts
Seems ideal for me given that my work has free charging stations. However, 18 months is a long time, who knows what other manufacturers have planned?
How many other companies besides Tesla have plug-ins released in the last 18 months? How many more have been rumored?

Answer is...not very many of either.


It is a tiny fringe of the market where not very many people are competing for a tiny pool of customers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
Seems ideal for me given that my work has free charging stations. However, 18 months is a long time, who knows what other manufacturers have planned?
Hmmm. IMO, lead times in the automobile industry are quite long. Whatever is going to hit dealers in 18 months has already been shown or is close to.

There's a new Chevy Volt or Bolt or whatever coming out. I personally don't like the Chevy parts bin interior which is used in every car they make from the 1995 Blazer to the 2014 80K suburbans. Na'thanks.

Me thinks one can save A LOT of scratch by driving this around Europe instead of a petrol car.
 

·
Registered
Escorted from the White House
Joined
·
36,951 Posts
How many other companies besides Tesla have plug-ins released in the last 18 months? How many more have been rumored?

Answer is...not very many of either.


It is a tiny fringe of the market where not very many people are competing for a tiny pool of customers.
That's changing though. Read somewhere that five years ago, there was a total of four EVs available in the US market. Within the next couple of years, that # is supposed to jump to nearly 60.

Then there's the level of interest in the Model 3... apparently Tesla received nearly 200,000 pre-orders in just the first 24 hours.

At an avg selling price of $40k per car (options), Tesla just did $8 billion of business... in a DAY. :eek:

If EVs are niche, they sure don't look like they're gonna stay that way for long.

The prices coming down as the batteries get cheaper help ensure this, which in turns leads to higher battery production volumes, which in turn brings battery and EV prices down more, which.... :)
 

·
Adorable Furry Hombre
Joined
·
30,962 Posts
That's changing though. Read somewhere that five years ago, there was a total of four EVs available in the US market. Within the next couple of years, that # is supposed to jump to nearly 60.

Then there's the level of interest in the Model 3... apparently Tesla received nearly 200,000 pre-orders in just the first 24 hours.

At an avg selling price of $40k per car (options), Tesla just did $8 billion of business... in a DAY. :eek:

If EVs are niche, they sure don't look like they're gonna stay that way for long.

The prices coming down as the batteries get cheaper help ensure this, which in turns leads to higher battery production volumes, which in turn brings battery and EV prices down more, which.... :)
Except 200K orders...were pre-orders, and the reservation was only $1,000 and it is refundable. And you may not see your vehicle for over a year. Presuming Tesla doesn't cancel your order over an angry tweet at the CEO-as happened to one guy earlier this year.

I think you are over exaggerating how much economies of scale will lower prices. Batteries small and large haven't gotten much cheaper in the last few years. Nor have they gotten much better, most device longevity increases have come from demand rather than supply. I haven't checked but have Nissan Leaf battery prices gone done since sales started? Given inflation and all things going up in price-I'd suspect the opposite.

We'll see.

Nissan has already admitted that selling battery pack replacements for $5,500USD with trade-in is costing them money
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,389 Posts
About 150,000 people waited in line to put down deposits on a car that they haven't test driven, and won't be available for more than a year. And based on what I can see, the car is over-priced starting at $35K (at least compared to similar cars, ICE or hybrid). So please tell me, what's the appeal? Is it a status thing? It certainly doesn't seem to be economical given today's gas prices unless you drive a lot of miles. And if you do drive a lot of miles its limited range makes it impractical.
doesn't sound like you'll be buy one, seeing as you're looking for every attempt to doubt it. 200,000+ people want an electric car with good range and an affordable price tag. Have you sat in a Model S? they're damn nice cars. electrics are overdue. most folks don't drive more than 40 miles/day. so, right too, right job. $27K after taxes/rebates. have you ever NOT paid for gas? Its pretty awesome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,389 Posts
IT should have been a wagon thats all I have to say.
if they make an affordable sport wagon, the lines will be much longer.
I'll be standing in one of them somewhere.

I'm not a huge early adopter/first generation tech. guy. I'll let the first batch be beta-tested by the public. but we'll be shopping for a new wagon in about 2-3 years...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,389 Posts
I'm sure there were more purchases on-line (of the 150K) than in line. Especially since there are only 215 world-wide Tesla store locations.

The appeal is to never pay for gas again and for some states to receive as much as a $10K (Federal & State tax incentive). For folks who already take advantage of solar PV panels it totally makes sense.

I'm still on the fence since the price with options will most likely be into the $50K and up range plus the fact that I no longer have a commute so our cars are mainly used for long trips. Having to stop for 1-1/2+ hrs to charge after driving 200 miles does not sound appealing to me (and that's if no one is already using the Superchargers at those locations where you need to charge).
I thought Tesla supercharging stations were a 20-30 minute deal...whats your hurry? have a beverage, stretch your legs, enjoy some fresh air. starting to see those pop up everywhere, which is great. driving long distance was an adventure 80 years ago... a daily outting.....Americans have lost sight of that.
 
1 - 20 of 94 Posts
Top