Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
21 - 40 of 302 Posts

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,404 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
The two are not synonymous.
OMS can be used as a paint thinner. But a paint thinner isn't necessarily OMS.
Make sure to read the label. Something labeled 'Paint Thinner' could contain Acetone, Turpentine, Naphtha, Toluene, Methyl ethyl ketone (MEK), Dimethylformamide (DMF). Some nasty stuff.
And just because something is odorless doesn't mean it isn't harmful to breathe in. Carbon monoxide and methane gas are odorless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
What chain lubes last 600 miles without re-appling and are fairly clean and easy to clean/degrease the chain?

I assume any wax lubes with the exception of Smoove are out and Chain-L is too dirty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,635 Posts
The important thing is to lube correctly. One drop on each roller. Then wipe chain thoroughly. Wipe again after the first couple of rides. Repeat every 500 miles unless you get caught in rain or very wet roads where you should wipe down and lube immediately after the ride.
If you use a more dilute lube formula (3 parts odorless mineral spirits to one part oil) and flood the chain with it while pedaling the bike in the work stand, you will simultaneously clean the chain by fluidizing all the gunk and grit. Wiping the chain well and letting the solvent evaporate (lube after the ride, not before it) leaves lube inside the chain and a clean outside.
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,404 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
If you use a more dilute lube formula (3 parts odorless mineral spirits to one part oil) and flood the chain with it while pedaling the bike in the work stand, you will simultaneously clean the chain by fluidizing all the gunk and grit. Wiping the chain well and letting the solvent evaporate (lube after the ride, not before it) leaves lube inside the chain and a clean outside.
This is currently what I do with the 50/50 formula and it actually does a pretty good job at cleaning the chain. Though I think I'll try your formula or maybe a 2/1 formula next.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
There are studies that show homemade penetrating oil as good as the commercial equivalent can be made by diluting the lubricating oil with 10% acetone. I'm not sure how much OMS differs in this application, but diluting motor oil with 50% OMS seems you are diluting it too much. Beware that acetone dissolves some plastics so make sure the the bottle you use can handle it (HDPE 2 works). Acetone also evaporates quickly whereas OMS doesn't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,016 Posts
There are studies that show homemade penetrating oil as good as the commercial equivalent can be made by diluting the lubricating oil with 10% acetone. I'm not sure how much OMS differs in this application, but diluting motor oil with 50% OMS seems you are diluting it too much. Beware that acetone dissolves some plastics so make sure the the bottle you use can handle it (HDPE 2 works). Acetone also evaporates quickly whereas OMS doesn't.
The formula has been much debated over the internet. I remember intense debates on this back in the USENET days. The theory is that with more dilution, it makes a better chain cleaner and leaving less oil on the surface on the chain allows it to run cleaner. I've tried as much as 4 parts OMS one part oil and it hasn't seemed to make much difference in the intervals between cleaning and re-lubing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
The formula has been much debated over the internet. I remember intense debates on this back in the USENET days. The theory is that with more dilution, it makes a better chain cleaner and leaving less oil on the surface on the chain allows it to run cleaner. I've tried as much as 4 parts OMS one part oil and it hasn't seemed to make much difference in the intervals between cleaning and re-lubing.
I'm a believer in taking off the chain and clean it that way, either in a water bottle with a mix of boiling hot water and Simple Green or an ultrasonic cleaner.
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,404 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I'm a believer in taking off the chain and clean it that way, either in a water bottle with a mix of boiling hot water and Simple Green or an ultrasonic cleaner.
Unnecessary, not to mention stripping the old lube out of the rollers and introducing water won't allow the water to dry out of the rollers before some rust develops.

Not to mention how long do you think that pristinely clean chain will stay that way if you properly lube it afterwards? Maybe about 20 miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Unnecessary, not to mention stripping the old lube out of the rollers and introducing water won't allow the water to dry out of the rollers before some rust develops.

Not to mention how long do you think that pristinely clean chain will stay that way if you properly lube it afterwards? Maybe about 20 miles.
I want to strip out the old lube and dirt. I dry the chain either out in the hot sun or blow out with compressed air.

So? What you are doing is making grinding paste (I.e., grit and oil).

Jobst Brandt wrote never oil a dirty chain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
I want to strip out the old lube and dirt. I dry the chain either out in the hot sun or blow out with compressed air.

So? What you are doing is making grinding paste (I.e., grit and oil).

Jobst Brandt wrote never oil a dirty chain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
My grinding paste approach has my chains lasting 8000 miles between changes and they still haven't shown much increase in pin to pin length so probably should go longer but it just doesn't seem right. I'll probably just stick with it and keep ruining my chains.
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,404 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
My grinding paste approach has my chains lasting 8000 miles between changes and they still haven't shown much increase in pin to pin length so probably should go longer but it just doesn't seem right. I'll probably just stick with it and keep ruining my chains.
Exactly. At 6000 miles much less 8000 miles, a chain doesn't owe me anything.

MCM, how many miles do your chains last? As for the "grinding paste" theory, how long do you think it takes for that "grinding paste" to redevelop in a totally clean chain?

As Kerry Irons implied above, the mineral spirits added to the oil works out a lot of that dirt and grit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Exactly. At 6000 miles much less 8000 miles, a chain doesn't owe me anything.

MCM, how many miles do your chains last? As for the "grinding paste" theory, how long do you think it takes for that "grinding paste" to redevelop in a totally clean chain?

As Kerry Irons implied above, the mineral spirits added to the oil works out a lot of that dirt and grit.
I don't keep records and admit to being lazy on occasion and oiling a dirty chain. I've also forgotten to measure and have been caught out with a skipping new chain and had to buy a new cassette and/or chainring on occasion.

From Sheldonbrown.com:

Primitive rule #1: Never oil a chain on the bike.

This means the chain should be cleaned of grit before oiling, and because this is practically impossible without submerging the chain in solvent (kerosene, commercial solvent, or paint thinner), it must be taken off the bicycle. Devices with rotating brushes that can be clamped on the chain while on the bicycle, do a fair job but are messy and do not prevent fine grit from becoming suspended in the solvent. External brushing or wiping moves grit out of sight, but mainly into the openings in the chain where subsequent oiling will carry it inside.

Never use gasoline because it is explosive and contains toxic light petroleum fractions that penetrate skin. Removing the chain from the bicycle isn't always possible. There are times (after riding in the rain) when a chain screams for oil and good cleaning is impractical. Fortunately, after riding in heavy rain, the chain is fairly clean and in that case rule #1 may be violated for humanitarian reasons. However, only an internally clean chain squeaks, so it isn't as bad as it sounds. Also, water is a moderately good lubricant, but it evaporates as soon as the road dries.

Removing solvent from the chain after rinsing is important. Compressed air is not readily available in the household, nor is a centrifuge. Manually slinging the chain around outdoors works best if the chain is a closed loop but without pressing the pin completely in. The other way is to evaporate it. Accelerated drying methods by heating should be avoided because they can be explosive.

Lubricating the chain with hot 90W gear lube works but it is also efficient fly paper, collecting plenty of hardpack between sprockets and on the outside of the chain. Motor oil is far better, but motorcycle chain and chainsaw lubricants are better yet, because they have volatile solvents that allow good penetration for their relatively viscous lubricant. Paraffin (canning wax), although clean, works poorly because it is not mobile and cannot replenish the bearing surfaces once it has been displaced. This becomes apparent with any water that gets on the chain. It immediately squeaks.

[I have found that motor oil works poorly: it washes out of the chain due to its detergent properties -- John Allen.]

Lombard, what's your criteria for when to replace a chain? I try to replace at 12 1/16".
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,404 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Lombard, what's your criteria for when to replace a chain? I try to replace at 12 1/16".
12 1/16 is the best time to replace unless you want to have to also replace the cassette.

Any idea how many miles you get out of a chain? Can you get 6000 miles out of a chain with no measurable wear? I do.
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,404 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
12 1/16 is the best time to replace unless you want to have to also replace the cassette.

Any idea how many miles you get out of a chain? Can you get 6000 miles out of a chain with no measurable wear? I do.
I think it's about what you guys are getting, maybe a little more. I vaguely remember getting around 10,000 miles out of a chain some years back, but I could be wrong. I'm getting good life out of them, but as I said, I've got to be more religious about measuring them for wear more often so I don't ruin cassettes and chainrings.
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,404 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I think it's about what you guys are getting, maybe a little more. I vaguely remember getting around 10,000 miles out of a chain some years back, but I could be wrong. I'm getting good life out of them, but as I said, I've got to be more religious about measuring them for wear more often so I don't ruin cassettes and chainrings.
10,000 miles is certainly feasible. I'm pretty sure I could have gotten that out of my chain had it not been for the stiff link. As I mentioned before, there was no wear when I replaced it at 6000 miles. So whatever I did prevented wear. Could a more vigilant approach prevented that stiff link? Maybe, maybe not. It hardly seems worth the trouble of removing the chain when I'm getting the wear or lack thereof I'm getting.

I think Kerry Irons has the right idea as posted earlier:

If you use a more dilute lube formula (3 parts odorless mineral spirits to one part oil) and flood the chain with it while pedaling the bike in the work stand, you will simultaneously clean the chain by fluidizing all the gunk and grit. Wiping the chain well and letting the solvent evaporate (lube after the ride, not before it) leaves lube inside the chain and a clean outside.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
I recently waxed a newish chain using molten wax and ptfe powder. Its amazingly clean after 1200 miles but I might re do it at about 2000.

Is it any good you'll no doubt ask - well it's too soon to show wear but it's as clean as the day I waxed it. I remain optimistic

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
I used a homebrew 50/50 mineral spirit and synthetic oil for a few years. Last winter I found something slightly better, I use ATF first to lube and clean the chain, wiper it clean after that. Then I started using straight Haldex fluid to lubricate the chain.

ATF cleans the chain really well, may not be as well as removing the chain and cleaning it with kerosene( but who has time for that?). Haldex (synthetic 4WD gear oil on new cars) is very thin comparing to 90 weight oil or engine oil, so I do not mix it with mineral spirit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
I recently waxed a newish chain using molten wax and ptfe powder. Its amazingly clean after 1200 miles but I might re do it at about 2000.

Is it any good you'll no doubt ask - well it's too soon to show wear but it's as clean as the day I waxed it. I remain optimistic

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
You should get good wear from wax, and of course it's clean, but my beef is you have to rewax too often, which is a pain, like every 200 miles, which is less than two weeks for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,635 Posts
Its bad typing on my part. I meant Odorless Mineral Spirits (aka paint thinner). Initially I used synthetic oil as was the approved internet recipe. Since then, I have the opinion that regular oil made from dinosaurs works just the same
Just to be clear, synthetic oils are made from dinosaurs too. They just take a more circuitous route to get from crude oil to oil in the can. Commence organic chemistry lesson in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, . . .
 
21 - 40 of 302 Posts
Top