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I do not notice any rubbing but I do not care about a little drag any more. I seriously doubt there is any. However I have had great difficulty with disk brakes on a cross bike I had before. I re-bled redid them many times, and had two bike shops go over them too. They were just never any good. also had contimination issues but even after fixing that they were always inferior to rim brakes. They were post-mount type before the flat-mount era. Now my skinny fit step brother has that bike and is OK with the brakes. Bleeding brakes and fixing contamination is not for everyone to master, in fact it is not for most bike riders I think, and that is a serious shortcoming in some respects. However again on my MTB I have found the disk brakes to be really really low maintenance despite out perpetual mucky wet conditions. Seems they're more mature than the road bike disk brakes,
 

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When you find the mech who "knows what he's doing," Chris Froome has a job for him!
Well IDK, I don't seem to have a problem adjusting my disc brakes so they don't rub. And I'm not a pro mechanic.
 

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Well IDK, I don't seem to have a problem adjusting my disc brakes so they don't rub. And I'm not a pro mechanic.
Me neither, FWIW. I don't own any disc-braked bikes, but a friend does, and I (watched a video and then) adjusted his so they don't rub, easy-peasy.
 

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I'm guessing this debate is now settled. Somebody net it out for me... Disk breaks... yea or nay?
 

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I'm guessing this debate is now settled. Somebody net it out for me... Disk breaks... yea or nay?
Yes they do.
 

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Well IDK, I don't seem to have a problem adjusting my disc brakes so they don't rub. And I'm not a pro mechanic.
To be perfectly honest, I haven't had to screw around with squeaking brake rotors for 5 years, so they've no doubt improved the engineering somewhat. Froome still complains about the exact same problems I had. I mean, adjusting rim brakes is so easy! The pads won't go off center when you get on the bike and ride it, like Froome complains about. Then again, some of these carbon forks or uber lightweight wheels probably flex just enough to cause this annoying squeaking. I got out of the business slightly before hydraulics came online, thank God. What a nightmare!

The only way that worked for me, eventually, was to loosen the two allen bolts holding the caliper mechanism to the frame, hiold the caliper closed with the brake lever, and while holding the lever snugly, tighten the two allen bolts. Then, releasing the brake lever, the rotor would most of the time, but not always, return to center, that is if the innards were clean enough to work freely.

The Luddite '80s Super Record rim brakes on my two bikes do fade on steep descents, but WTH, just squeeze harder, and they'll do the job! Pads last around 6,000 miles, depending on how much I brake. Rims last 30 or 40,000 miles. Hubs, BB, headset bearings, single pivot brake calipers, so far about 75,000 miles and still no play and smooth as silk.

How long do disc pads last? When do the paper thin rotors start to warp? The acid test on equipment is pro racing. Froome's skepticism is right on. These negatives Froome mentions wait to be solved. So far, we have thicker [heavier!] rotors borrowed from mountain bikes. What's next?
 

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To be perfectly honest, I haven't had to screw around with squeaking brake rotors for 5 years, so they've no doubt improved the engineering somewhat. Froome still complains about the exact same problems I had. I mean, adjusting rim brakes is so easy! The pads won't go off center when you get on the bike and ride it, like Froome complains about. Then again, some of these carbon forks or uber lightweight wheels probably flex just enough to cause this annoying squeaking. I got out of the business slightly before hydraulics came online, thank God. What a nightmare!
Adjusting hydraulics is easy peasy! You never need to re-adjust them unless you change to a wheel set that has a different brand of hub. At least on the bike I have with RS505 with Centerlock Ice Tech 160mm rotors. Granted I have read about the higher end rotors with more AL in the center being prone to warping. Mine have never warped. I only had to re-adjust them twice - once when I accidentally pulled the front lever with the wheel out and the other time when I changed wheel sets. Otherwise I have never had rub or squeal.

Don't get me wrong. I am not here to boast disc brakes over rim brakes or vice versa. I just think that avoiding them because you don't know how to adjust them is silly. It's not rocket science - really.
 

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I do not notice any rubbing but I do not care about a little drag any more. I seriously doubt there is any. However I have had great difficulty with disk brakes on a cross bike I had before. I re-bled redid them many times, and had two bike shops go over them too. They were just never any good. also had contimination issues but even after fixing that they were always inferior to rim brakes. They were post-mount type before the flat-mount era. Now my skinny fit step brother has that bike and is OK with the brakes. Bleeding brakes and fixing contamination is not for everyone to master, in fact it is not for most bike riders I think, and that is a serious shortcoming in some respects. However again on my MTB I have found the disk brakes to be really really low maintenance despite out perpetual mucky wet conditions. Seems they're more mature than the road bike disk brakes,
If your brakes rub, you will hear it. To me, it's annoying, like a creak, and it's something to be fixed. I like a quiet bike. However, my road bike with discs has front rotor rub when I pedal out of the saddle, and that seems to be something due to fork flex, which I can't fix. It doesn't happen all the time though.
 

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Adjusting hydraulics is easy peasy! You never need to re-adjust them unless you change to a wheel set that has a different brand of hub. At least on the bike I have with RS505 with Centerlock Ice Tech 160mm rotors. Granted I have read about the higher end rotors with more AL in the center being prone to warping. Mine have never warped. I only had to re-adjust them twice - once when I accidentally pulled the front lever with the wheel out and the other time when I changed wheel sets. Otherwise I have never had rub or squeal.

Don't get me wrong. I am not here to boast disc brakes over rim brakes or vice versa. I just think that avoiding them because you don't know how to adjust them is silly. It's not rocket science - really.
Nice to be reassured the tech is working out. Hydraulics is the coolest, if you're willing to mess with setting it up, way more complicated than simply centering rim brakes with one allen wrench.

Have to admit almost all my experience was adjusting cheap hybrid disc brakes. There were some better built mountain bike discs that centered reliably, once I got them adjusted. I've been spoiled too long with 36 spoked wheels, cup and cone hubs, headsets, and 70 mm threaded BBs, down tube friction shifters; have a simple speedometer/odometer/clock on the bars that scrolls automatically, no buttons that always go bad; and carry a flip phone in a jersey pocket or backpack. Bike packers on youtube are riding stout custom gravel bikes with down tube shifters! How about that?
 

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.........and carry a flip phone in a jersey pocket or backpack. Bike packers on youtube are riding stout custom gravel bikes with down tube shifters! How about that?
A flip phone? Ditch it! The carrier pigeon has no battery that will run down at the worst time! 👍
 
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Bike packers on youtube are riding stout custom gravel bikes with down tube shifters! How about that?
???
I actually went to U-tube and searched for 'stout custom gravel bikes bikes with downtube shifters'. Here's what I got -

478431

By the way, Henry gives absolutely no validity to the argument of DT shifters on gravel bikes. I must have missed that press release.
 

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???
I actually went to U-tube and searched for 'stout custom gravel bikes bikes with downtube shifters'. Here's what I got -

View attachment 478431
By the way, Henry gives absolutely no validity to the argument of DT shifters on gravel bikes. I must have missed that press release.
Two reasons I've heard given for down tube shifters are easier to "rinko" (a form of packing) the bike, and some long distance cyclists find the shift levers easier to manipulate when the rides start getting overly long and their hand\finger strength starts to diminish. There are randoneurs that are riding as many as 1200 kilometers at a "sitting"(Paris Brest Paris).

How Small is a Rinko Bike? – Rene Herse Cycles
 

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???
I actually went to U-tube and searched for 'stout custom gravel bikes bikes with downtube shifters'. Here's what I got -

View attachment 478431
By the way, Henry gives absolutely no validity to the argument of DT shifters on gravel bikes. I must have missed that press release.
Yep, that's the guy, Henry Wildeberry, retro bike packer with Ms. Cool making her own elegant statement. He says Paris-Brest-Paris endurance riders' hands eventually get tired click shifting and many find friction shifting on down tube is gentler on the hands. Electronic shifting might take care of that handicap. Don't forget a spare battery! 50 miles from the nearest bike shop, friction shifters are one less thing to worry about.

Roadies all don't have to aspire to the latest Pinarello F wonderbike with 12 speed cassette, electronic shifting, disc brakes, and 46/34 chainrings. In this video linked below, the weight of Ms Cool's bike is 22.1 pounds, about the same as the two rigs I set up in '85, one with rack and fenders, and are still riding.

I guess bike packing is a spinoff from gravel bikes, huh? One of the principle pleasures of being a "cyclist," exploring the environment and cultures up close and personal far off the interstates, harking back to a time when families took Sunday drives out into the countryside in their brand new cars, and major routes went straight through every town along the way.

 

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Yep, that's the guy, Henry Wildeberry, retro bike packer with Ms. Cool making her own elegant statement. He says Paris-Brest-Paris endurance riders' hands eventually get tired click shifting and many find friction shifting on down tube is gentler on the hands. Electronic shifting might take care of that handicap. Don't forget a spare battery! 50 miles from the nearest bike shop, friction shifters are one less thing to worry about.

Roadies all don't have to aspire to the latest Pinarello F wonderbike with 12 speed cassette, electronic shifting, disc brakes, and 46/34 chainrings. In this video linked below, the weight of Ms Cool's bike is 22.1 pounds, about the same as the two rigs I set up in '85, one with rack and fenders, and are still riding.

I guess bike packing is a spinoff from gravel bikes, huh? One of the principle pleasures of being a "cyclist," exploring the environment and cultures up close and personal far off the interstates, harking back to a time when families took Sunday drives out into the countryside in their brand new cars, and major routes went straight through every town along the way.

I like it. Nice scenery!
 

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I like it. Nice scenery!

Here's a mech confirming Froome's critique on these newfangled brakes. This guy cites weight weenie components not being up to handling the heat, four times hotter descending a mountain at 50 mph than descending a deer trail at 20 mph using thicker rotors and calipers on a mountain bike.

Seems like this achilles heel could be solved by more substantial discs and calipers for better cooling, dutifully making a sacrifice to the weight gods.
 

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Here's a mech confirming Froome's critique on these newfangled brakes. This guy cites weight weenie components not being up to handling the heat, four times hotter descending a mountain at 50 mph than descending a deer trail at 20 mph using thicker rotors and calipers on a mountain bike.

Seems like this achilles heel could be solved by more substantial discs and calipers for better cooling, dutifully making a sacrifice to the weight gods.
Ironically, the larger aluminum center of the rotor is meant to transfer and discipate more heat, but at the same time makes the rotor more prone to warpage.
 

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Ironically, the larger aluminum center of the rotor is meant to transfer and discipate more heat, but at the same time makes the rotor more prone to warpage.
Which just goes to show you technological improvements always have their tradeoffs, like we Luddites have been pointing out.

Here's another angle: Do you appreciate how much fossil fuels are required to manufacture that disc brake and deliver it to your shop? As a fossil fuel cost per watt produced, wind farms and solar panels are quite expensive to manufacture, maintain, and replace, far more expensive than piping in fossil fuels to run the generators. How often do disc pads have to be replaced compared to the old rim brake pads?

Most of us live in urban environments with all paved roads and bike paths. So the simplest solution for me, always preferring to leave the gas guzzler at home when going out for a bike ride, was to set up two road bikes, one for sport, one for utility. Gravel bikes are a couple of pounds heavier than what I have, so I'm not handicapped by weight. All the parts except one rear derailleur are interchangeable. The bike manufacturers hate me. Haven't spent more than $100 a year on bike stuff for years. Have a collection of clothing that will outlast the flesh stuffed into them.

I usually come back to the "more is better" crowd with a message put forth by Michael Moore in "Planet of the Humans:" consumerism, lust for the latest tech, has been driving mankind to his extinction since the Industrial Revolution. The solution, as we got a surprise taste of in the pandemic lockdown, is less consumerism. Make products that hold up, work reliably, and don't have proprietary tech that goes out of date, that people can happily live with, not dangle the latest bauble tempting buyers to always want something "better." When all is said, lust is a subjective phenomenon.

Amazing how little material goods a person needs to live a happy life without wants. I've met lots of happy poor people, not all that many happy rich people. They have everything they want, but always want more. Living cheap, which bicycles enable exquisitely, is a major part of the global warming solution: train people to live on less material wealth, therefore consume less energy. The global economy is finally making that possible. Let disc brakes find their niche in the mountains, but leave the rest of us happy not to lust for the latest tech, just because it is the latest tech and we have to have it to "keep up."
 

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Here's another angle: Do you appreciate how much fossil fuels are required to manufacture that disc brake and deliver it to your shop?
This is a very weak argument. But hey, if you want to go that way, think of how much longer wheelsets will last since rims are no longer used as a brake surface. Disc rotors take up much less space than rims do, so you could say disc brakes actually result in less fossil fuel use than rim brakes. Think how many more rotors than rims you could ship in the same space. :sneaky:

As a fossil fuel cost per watt produced, wind farms and solar panels are quite expensive to manufacture, maintain, and replace, far more expensive than piping in fossil fuels to run the generators.
Where the fark did you come up with this one? Oil generators and gas turbines require much more maintenance and repair than solar panels that have no moving parts. Wind mills have moving parts, but are still much less expensive over the long run than fossil fuel generators.
 
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