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I have been reading many recormendations for tire replacements on this board and foundit a great place for info. I would like a recomendataion on replacements for what I have.

I have about 3,000 miles on my current tires. They are 700x20C @ 125 psi. I really liked the higer pressure that this tire supported while on the road. Very low rolling resistance while good traction. The only name stamped on the tire is Matrix which I assume is the inhouse brand used by Trek.

I have been looking for comprabile tires from Michelin and Continental but I am open to other suggestions.

Thanks
 

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RonV said:
I have been reading many recormendations for tire replacements on this board and foundit a great place for info. I would like a recomendataion on replacements for what I have.

I have about 3,000 miles on my current tires. They are 700x20C @ 125 psi. I really liked the higer pressure that this tire supported while on the road. Very low rolling resistance while good traction. The only name stamped on the tire is Matrix which I assume is the inhouse brand used by Trek.

I have been looking for comprabile tires from Michelin and Continental but I am open to other suggestions.

Thanks
It's hard to go wrong with Michelin Pro2Races for price/performance ratio. You may want to consider going up in size to a 23c. Better comfort and cornering (since you can run a slightly lower pressure) and lower rolling resistance to boot. I save the 20c tires for my front TT wheel where the width match to the rim is more important from an aerodynamics standpoint. In all other cases, I use a 23c.

Just my 2 pesos...
 

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i concur with the michelin pro2 race tire. i use them a lot and they work really well in the wet....also, their cornering traction inspires confidence. and at 127tpi, it's pretty supple.

i've heard some mixed reviews on the conti gp4000's...i wonder how those are
 

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It depends on your riding conditions.

I feel that tyres, being your connection to the road, make a huge difference in the "feel" of a bike. Accordingly, spending an extra $50 to get your $2500 bike riding nicely isn't so bad compared to other things.

That said, my rain / training wheels have Michelin Carbons that I got on closeout. My fast ride / race wheels have Vittoria Open Corsas (700 x 23 evo CK). They are GREAT tyres. The suppleness is wonderful. They can be had from many websites / ebay for far less than retail if you look.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the replies. You have sold me on the idea of moving to the 23 vs. 20. I am looking at the Pro2 Race and the 05 Carbon, both have a good price.

Its a toss up between the two. Considering that I do about 1500 miles in the sumer in a combination of paved trails and road, the 05 Carbon looks like it may be the one I purchase based on its construction for puncture resistance and tread wear.
 

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Not much difference

Other than repeating everyone's recommendation that you should ditch the 20 mm tires (unless you're very light weight), there really isn't that much difference between the high end tires from Continental, Michelin, Vredestein, Vittoria, etc. People have personal favorites for all kinds of reasons, but your criteria would be just as valid if you selected tires based on a color you liked at a good price.
 

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You're right

peabody said:
like veloflex, gommatalia or vittoria, with latex tubes. you won't believe the difference!
You're right, I won't. :) "Open Tubular" is just a marketing term, trying to make the customer believe that the tire is somehow different from any other tire when in fact the construction details do NOT depend on whether this designation is applied.
 

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Kerry Irons said:
You're right, I won't. :) "Open Tubular" is just a marketing term, trying to make the customer believe that the tire is somehow different from any other tire when in fact the construction details do NOT depend on whether this designation is applied.
i thought that the whole upen tubular thing means that the tread was glued on, rather than being an integral part of the entire tire itself? :confused:
 

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it does, kerry irons

is very misinformed when it comes to tires. a tire like a michelin is 127 tpi and the tread
is molded on the tire. a handmade open tubular like a vitorria is 300 tpi and the tread is
glued on to the tire. this is the major diff. with the tread glued on and not molded on
the tread is not under tension with the tire therefore providing a different feel. how can
the tread be under tension you ask, well when the tire comes out of the mold it cools,
the tread is a different makeup than the carcass therefore they have different cooling rates,
that mr. irons is what causes the tread to be under tension and not provide the same ride quality as an open tubular. you have voiced your misinformed opinion on this subject before, so if you want to keep riding the other type of tires go ahead but don't voice
an opinion when you are not informed on the subject matter!
 

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peabody said:
is very misinformed when it comes to tires. a tire like a michelin is 127 tpi and the tread
is molded on the tire. a handmade open tubular like a vitorria is 300 tpi and the tread is
glued on to the tire. this is the major diff. with the tread glued on and not molded on
the tread is not under tension with the tire therefore providing a different feel. how can
the tread be under tension you ask, well when the tire comes out of the mold it cools,
the tread is a different makeup than the carcass therefore they have different cooling rates,
that mr. irons is what causes the tread to be under tension and not provide the same ride quality as an open tubular. you have voiced your misinformed opinion on this subject before, so if you want to keep riding the other type of tires go ahead but don't voice
an opinion when you are not informed on the subject matter!
It appears that a few people misinformed, but I'd say that Kerry isn't one of them.

First, there is a maximum (technology based) real TPI. What the manufacturers feed you often is not the real TPI but a TPI based on the total number of threads in a volume, projected onto an area. So some manufacturers might report 3 110TPI plies as a 330 TPI tire. FWIW, a real 300 TPI ply would have threads 84.7 microns in diameter, or 0.0847mm in diameter. There was a bike mag that adressed this issue and gave a realistic limit on TPI......but I can't remember where I read it: Velo News, Cycle Sport, Pro Cycling....I think it was one of those.

Also, you're completely misinformed about tension. EVERY tire contact patch is both in tension and compression. It doesn't matter whether the tread was glued on, molded on, or stuck on with spit. Tire squirm is a function of the distribution of tension and compression in the tread and casing. If you actually believe that a tubular rolls without any tension in the tread or casing, then you should invest some time in some Newtonian mechanics courses.

Lastly, as far as the "feel" of a tire goes, there is no such objective quantity. It's entirely based on a given person's interpretation of several bike component responses superimposed on each other, all coupled with how that person's nerve endings function or how much that person may have bought into any given mythology re: clinchers, tubulars, etc.
 

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peabody said:
a tire like a michelin is 127 tpi and the tread
is molded on the tire. a handmade open tubular like a vitorria is 300 tpi and the tread is
glued on to the tire. this is the major diff.
I don't know if that is true or not, but Vitorria and Michelin high end tires test very good for rolling resistance, but Michelins are better for puncture resistance. Carbons even have decent Crr and are tough and long lasting.
 

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Tire manufacturing

boroef said:
i thought that the whole upen tubular thing means that the tread was glued on, rather than being an integral part of the entire tire itself? :confused:
Open tubular is a marketing term used to suggest that the clincher tire is made with the same casing, tread, and manufacturing process as a tubular. In fact, essentially all high end tires are made with the same casing, tread, and manufacturing process as a tubular. Treads can be attached to the casing in a number of ways, but it doesn't really effect the performance of the tire. In the old days, all clinchers were molded in one piece and high end tubulars had the tread glued onto the casing - so called "cold vulcanized." Today, many tubulars are made in molds before being sewn, and some clinchers are made via "cold vulcanizing" but the quality of a tire is much more about both the details of the design and the execution of the manufacturing process than about which process is used.

It's sort of like the arguments people used to have about lugged vs welded frames - there were strong advocates for both methods arguing that one was fundamentally better for all kinds of reasons. Turned out they were both wrong.

I'll leave it to Mr. Peabody to revel in his own confusion and delusion about tires. I think alienator addressed that very well :)
 

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I never gave it much thought as in a sense a clincher is like a tubular opened ;)
That aside I do notice tires like Veloflex are completely flat in the box ,
meaning not U shaped like some of the other types. This gives me the impression when feeling them that they are more supple in my hands then the U shaped hard wire bead types. Having tried Michelin pro's, Veloflex & Vittoria Diamante Pro Lites I liked the Veloflex best.
 

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alienator

i see reading comprehension is not your strong suit. the tire from the cooling process
is under tension without even being mounted, i said nothing about when you are
riding. so the tire has tension initially and then when it rolls on the pavement it has more, also vitorria are 300 tpi per ply, continental is the infamous tire co that likes
to print their tires at some high tpi count by multiplying by the number of plies. now a tire
with a 300 tpi vs a 127 tpi has much finer and softer threads in fact vittoria is a cotton
thread vs most regular tires nylon thread, now the finer softer threads conform to the road
surface much better giving a softer livlier feel and a lower rolling resistance. and alienator
in my engineering program i never saw a course called newtonian mechanics, i had
dynamics, statics, mechanics of materials, but the newtonian mechanics course was
never offered at my college, guess you went to a better school than me. i'm not sure
why kerry irons believes that the michelin is made the same way a vittoria is, you can physically see the little "nubs" or whatever you want to call them and the parting line
up the middle of the tire from the molding process which you will not see on a vitorria.
 

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Where to start?

peabody said:
i see reading comprehension is not your strong suit. the tire from the cooling process
is under tension without even being mounted, i said nothing about when you are
riding. so the tire has tension initially and then when it rolls on the pavement it has more, also vitorria are 300 tpi per ply, continental is the infamous tire co that likes
to print their tires at some high tpi count by multiplying by the number of plies. now a tire
with a 300 tpi vs a 127 tpi has much finer and softer threads in fact vittoria is a cotton
thread vs most regular tires nylon thread, now the finer softer threads conform to the road
surface much better giving a softer livlier feel and a lower rolling resistance. and alienator
in my engineering program i never saw a course called newtonian mechanics, i had
dynamics, statics, mechanics of materials, but the newtonian mechanics course was
never offered at my college, guess you went to a better school than me. i'm not sure
why kerry irons believes that the michelin is made the same way a vittoria is, you can physically see the little "nubs" or whatever you want to call them and the parting line
up the middle of the tire from the molding process which you will not see on a vitorria.
How about your using some punctuation and capitalization so as to make your posts a whole lot more readable, or didn't they cover that in your engineering program? Also, you will find that things work a lot better if you reply to the actual post that you are talking about instead of just replying to the last post in the thread. Finally, you will find that you will do better in this forum if you don't start off by insulting people. I realize that I insulted you, but I sure think you started it :)

That taken care of, you still offer nothing in support of your position. You can find data on tire rolling resistance, and there is little correlation with construction methods. And speaking of reading comprehension, I never said all tires were made the same way, just that how a tire is made is not definitive for performance. Those little "nubs" are a result of the mold design (they are the channels that let the air out of the mold as it fills with rubber) and have nothing to do with how the tire is made. You can have those if the tread is molded separately or if the tread is molded onto the casing. Even if they are present after the molding of the tread or tire, they can be removed in the finishing process so that people like you can be misled into thinking that their presence or absense is meaningful.
 
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