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Ride bicycles? Why?
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all,
Im currently building a training bike. I'm on a tight, or should I say very tight budget. Im looking for the lightest weight, least exspensive tire that isn't a complete slick. Something that I can ride in the rain or dry. I'm thinking something in the 23mm width. I've been eyeing the conti ultra race as they are decently cheap and light. Whats your thoughts and opinions. I appreciate the help, Its been over 13 years since I built any road bikes so Im still catching up on the new stuff.

My weight: 240 and dropping. I will be 193 at my lowest.
Wheelset: Miche m707
 

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Light race wheels and heavy training wheels

I still subscribe to this although I don't race. Week day rides are on heavy rims, 36 spokes wheels and 25 Conti GP4's. Weekends on Soul 2.0C wheels and Schwalbe Ultremos.

I hated GP4's in 23c as they were trick or treat in wet conditions but they're pretty good in 25c.

Regardless, take a look at 25c tires for your training bike and weight. BTW, I'm only 55kg and I find 25c tires to roll just fine.


zach.scofield said:
Hey all,
Im currently building a training bike. I'm on a tight, or should I say very tight budget. Im looking for the lightest weight, least exspensive tire that isn't a complete slick. Something that I can ride in the rain or dry. I'm thinking something in the 23mm width. I've been eyeing the conti ultra race as they are decently cheap and light. Whats your thoughts and opinions. I appreciate the help, Its been over 13 years since I built any road bikes so Im still catching up on the new stuff.

My weight: 240 and dropping. I will be 193 at my lowest.
Wheelset: Miche m707
 

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Too late

zach.scofield said:
Im looking for the lightest weight, least exspensive tire that isn't a complete slick.
Since you've already decided, you can save this nugget for your next set of tires: unless the riding surface deforms under the weight of the bike, there is no point at all in having tread. It doesn't help in the rain on paved roads. And you really should consider 25 mm tires at your weight. Just saying.
 

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Kerry Irons said:
there is no point at all in having tread. It doesn't help in the rain on paved roads.
+1

tread is absolutely unnecessary on pavement given the footprint of a high pressure 23/25/28 road tire. in fact, less rubber touching the ground = less traction, regardless of conditions.
 

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Ride bicycles? Why?
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
dookie said:
+1

tread is absolutely unnecessary on pavement given the footprint of a high pressure 23/25/28 road tire. in fact, less rubber touching the ground = less traction, regardless of conditions.
Im not going to get into the physics behind traction via footprint versus traction via friction. That arguement is tired and old, and is constantly proven with a general physics class. Tread on a road tire is beneficial under the correct circumstance just as tread on a car tire is beneficial in the correct application. Race cars run slicks all the time except in wet or rainy conditions. The tread is not designed to provide traction, but instead to void the contact area of moisture, to allow more contact to be made. Commuter vehicles have treaded tires to do the same on a daily basis.

And Im still struggling to understand the theory of a 25mm tire being more beneficial under my weight as opposed to a 23mm.
 

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zach.scofield said:
The tread is not designed to provide traction, but instead to void the contact area of moisture, to allow more contact to be made.
no ****, sherlock...

which is why the footprint is relevant. just how much water do you think there is trapped under the sliver of rubber that actually touches the pavement on a 700x23 tire at 100psi?

need evidence? look at the vittoria pave...the go-to wet weather tire for many pro teams.
 

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zach.scofield said:
Im not going to get into the physics behind traction via footprint versus traction via friction. That arguement is tired and old, and is constantly proven with a general physics class. Tread on a road tire is beneficial under the correct circumstance just as tread on a car tire is beneficial in the correct application. Race cars run slicks all the time except in wet or rainy conditions. The tread is not designed to provide traction, but instead to void the contact area of moisture, to allow more contact to be made. Commuter vehicles have treaded tires to do the same on a daily basis.

And Im still struggling to understand the theory of a 25mm tire being more beneficial under my weight as opposed to a 23mm.
One of the differences with bicycle tires is that they have a round cross section. It actually takes an incredible amount of speed to get a bike tire to hydroplane (100+ mph). The flat tread surface of a car tire requires the gooves for relief of water. Someone posted a good like to a study of airplane (round cross section) tire hydroplaning that said as much.

If you compare two tires at equal tire pressures and loaded equally, the contact patch will be equal in size. For a narrow tire it will be long and skinny. The wider tire will be shorter, but wider. What is required for a long pattern? It is necessary that the sidewall deform (tire drop) more. That deformation results in rolling resistance.

The other advantages for 25's for large guys (like me too) is that you can reduce the chance of pinch flats and you can lower the pressure a bit to maintain the same tire drop. That gives you more comfort.

Check this out on tire drop and it's relation to pressure and tire size:

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/images/TireDrop.pdf
 

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Theory v. practice

zach.scofield said:
Im not going to get into the physics behind traction via footprint versus traction via friction. That arguement is tired and old, and is constantly proven with a general physics class. Tread on a road tire is beneficial under the correct circumstance just as tread on a car tire is beneficial in the correct application. Race cars run slicks all the time except in wet or rainy conditions. The tread is not designed to provide traction, but instead to void the contact area of moisture, to allow more contact to be made. Commuter vehicles have treaded tires to do the same on a daily basis.

And Im still struggling to understand the theory of a 25mm tire being more beneficial under my weight as opposed to a 23mm.
Of course, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to tread and bicycle tires. Tread is to channel away water and prevent hydroplaning, or to improve grip on soft surfaces. Bicycle tires won't hydroplane under any real world circumstance, and pavement doesn't deform.

Higher pressure, required for heavier riders on narrower tires, means loss of traction, faster tire wear, reduced comfort, and quite possibly higher rolling resistance as the tire bounces off road surface roughness rather than conforming.
 

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Ride bicycles? Why?
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This thread is making me laugh. How many of you have been riding for 20+ years? Im done. For those of you who offered a suggestion for tires, I thank you. I ended up with a set of Michelin pro's. Fit my budget perfect, FREE!
 

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zach.scofield said:
I ended up with a set of Michelin pro's. Fit my budget perfect, FREE!
now *that's* funny. how much tread do those have?

nearly 25yrs under my belt here, including time as a cat2 and a pro mechanic. might i suggest that next time you need some info, you approach things with a more open mind and a whole lot less attitude?
 

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zach.scofield said:
This thread is making me laugh. How many of you have been riding for 20+ years? Im done. For those of you who offered a suggestion for tires, I thank you. I ended up with a set of Michelin pro's. Fit my budget perfect, FREE!
Why even ask for advice when you already know everything?

When your mind is closed years of experience means nothing. Most people only need about 20 seconds, not years, to figure out a 240 pounder could benefit from something bigger than 23s.
 

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I look for Michelin Carbons on eBay and buy when I find 2 for $50 or so. I was getting over 3k miles southwest Virginia, where it's steep everywhere and the roads are rough, with very few flats and no cuts. That's 50% longer than other race tires.

Others swear by the less trendy Continentals, like the original Grand Prix or 3000, hopefully on sale.

Gatorskins, etc. wear well but are never cheap, so cost per mile is still higher.
 
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