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Campy produced Titanium Record components and then apparently at some time moved to Carbon. Any opinions on the value of each would be helpful, you know, pros and cons. Also, anyone know the date of Titanium production?
Titanium v. Carbon Components?
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what parts??
I don't know what parts you're talking about. There was a Record Ti seatpost available in 1999. I had one on a Litespeed. Later this became a Chorus part, I believe.
Other than than that, there hasn't been a lot of change in the use of Ti. Record uses Ti for small bolts and a few other small parts in the hub to reduce weight a bit. Over the last few years, they have changed some aluminum parts to carbon, like the RD cage, but there is no other place than the seatpost where Ti has been changed to carbon (that I can think of).
I don't know what parts you're talking about. There was a Record Ti seatpost available in 1999. I had one on a Litespeed. Later this became a Chorus part, I believe.
Other than than that, there hasn't been a lot of change in the use of Ti. Record uses Ti for small bolts and a few other small parts in the hub to reduce weight a bit. Over the last few years, they have changed some aluminum parts to carbon, like the RD cage, but there is no other place than the seatpost where Ti has been changed to carbon (that I can think of).
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Well, any.
Primarily any that has to do with components. But I am particularly interested in brakes and drive train. Are the Record Titanium holding up (seems like they should). Any complaints with either.
Primarily any that has to do with components. But I am particularly interested in brakes and drive train. Are the Record Titanium holding up (seems like they should). Any complaints with either.
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Wooha, that's what happens when you're new here.
Sorry, C-40, saw your title, not your comments. Well, I am looking at a bike with "Record Titanium" on the shifters, derailers and cranks. Exhausting my weak search skills, I haven't been able to answer my question although I found this website yesterday and thought the collected wisdom here would at least have opinions
Stamp
Sorry, C-40, saw your title, not your comments. Well, I am looking at a bike with "Record Titanium" on the shifters, derailers and cranks. Exhausting my weak search skills, I haven't been able to answer my question although I found this website yesterday and thought the collected wisdom here would at least have opinions
StampI'm by no means an expert on everything Campy but I think you've got at least one misconception about what "Titanium" means when it's stamped on a Campy part. Before the introduction of carbon elements on the top end Record/Chorus components, I believe that "Titanium" just meant that the bolts and possibly springs on those components were made of titanium instead of the heavier, traditional, steel. The larger structural parts of the components were made of aluminum, which is lighter than titanium and plenty durable for most parts. Carbon fiber can apparently function well in many areas in a configuration that is lighter than aluminum but most Record parts that use carbon still use titanium for bolts, springs, etc. Top end Campy brakes are still aluminum with titanium bolts and other than the newer differential design that saves further weight I don't think you'll find much difference in durability over the brakes that were included in the "Titanium" labled grouppos.
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yep, that would be a misconception alright.
I just assumed that titanium was being used where aluminum had been and then carbon was used instead of titanium. So your view is that for the years prior to Carbon, the housing was all pretty much the same, wow. Thanks a lot for the info. Stamp
I just assumed that titanium was being used where aluminum had been and then carbon was used instead of titanium. So your view is that for the years prior to Carbon, the housing was all pretty much the same, wow. Thanks a lot for the info. Stamp
Titanium content of titanium components
Welcome to bicycle marketting 101.
There are many buzz words for bicycle products, particularly when it comes to materials. The words "Titanium" and "Carbon" are particularly valuable buzz words, so manufacturers like to attach them to component names. But frequently, the manufacturers seem to believe that if any small part of a component is made of titanium or carbon, then they are free to include that word in the component name. For example, several brake and lever manufacturers take their standard brakes or levers, replace one or two of the steel bolts with titanium bolts, add the word "Titanium" to the name, and then sell it for a much higher price. An example of this is Avid's Speed Dial levers. The "Speed Dial 7" levers are identical to the "Speed Dial Ti" levers except the "Ti" version has two titanium bolts in place of two steel bolts. This reduces their weight by about 10 grams, and increases their price by about $20. The actual titanium content of the "Ti" levers is less than 10%.
Now that "Carbon" is the a big buzz word, many manufacturers are taking a similar route. For example, the difference between Time's "Atac" and "Atac Carbon" pedals is that there are short strands of carbon fiber mixed with the plastic before it is injected into the die for the pedal body. This makes the body slightly stronger and stiffer (but only by a little bit), and results in no change in weight. But they can sell the "Carbon" version for much more.
Welcome to bicycle marketting 101.
There are many buzz words for bicycle products, particularly when it comes to materials. The words "Titanium" and "Carbon" are particularly valuable buzz words, so manufacturers like to attach them to component names. But frequently, the manufacturers seem to believe that if any small part of a component is made of titanium or carbon, then they are free to include that word in the component name. For example, several brake and lever manufacturers take their standard brakes or levers, replace one or two of the steel bolts with titanium bolts, add the word "Titanium" to the name, and then sell it for a much higher price. An example of this is Avid's Speed Dial levers. The "Speed Dial 7" levers are identical to the "Speed Dial Ti" levers except the "Ti" version has two titanium bolts in place of two steel bolts. This reduces their weight by about 10 grams, and increases their price by about $20. The actual titanium content of the "Ti" levers is less than 10%.
Now that "Carbon" is the a big buzz word, many manufacturers are taking a similar route. For example, the difference between Time's "Atac" and "Atac Carbon" pedals is that there are short strands of carbon fiber mixed with the plastic before it is injected into the die for the pedal body. This makes the body slightly stronger and stiffer (but only by a little bit), and results in no change in weight. But they can sell the "Carbon" version for much more.
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Thanks for the class! It is frustration. As I understand metalurgy, Titanium would seem to be a great metal to make the whole compnent from. Light weight, strong, non-rusting. All the reasons that I was interested in the Ti components. I think I will save my money. Thanks again. Big help. Stamp
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You missed the best one!
A few years ago, there was a "titanium" helmet on the market. A little digging revealed that there was titanium in the paint. As anyone familiar with paint pigments can tell you, TiO2 (titanium dioxide) is the standard to make white paint. Yes, the helmet was painted whiteMark McM said:
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I don't think it would make sense to either the manfu or the consumer to have
more Titanium in the components. For one thing, alot of the alum stuff like shifters,
RD, FD, crank, etc. are cast aluminum-polished components. Can you really
have investment-cast Titanium? I don't know, Titanium components seem all
machined to me, and cutting tool life is short.
more Titanium in the components. For one thing, alot of the alum stuff like shifters,
RD, FD, crank, etc. are cast aluminum-polished components. Can you really
have investment-cast Titanium? I don't know, Titanium components seem all
machined to me, and cutting tool life is short.
Titanium suitability
Every material has both pluses and minuses, and so different materials may be more or less ideal for every component (or part of a component). For example, aluminum is easier to extrude and has a higher coefficient of friction than titanium, so aluminum is better suited to making rims than tititanium. Steel is harder than titaninum and more easily ground and polished, so it is better for making bearings than titanium. All the main bicycle structural metals (steel, titanium, aluminum) have about the same modulus/density ratio, so for components that need high stiffness in tension/compression there is no advantage between different metals, and material selection is based on other material properties. But because cross-section is important for bending/torsional stiffness, low density materials can be made oversized at the same weight, and the lower density aluminum may be more optimum for components that need high ratio of bending/torsional stiffness to weight than titanium. Some of these components include brakes, derailleurs, levers, and even cranks.stamp adams said:
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