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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since this topic has been discussed in essence, but not in context, do any of you have a problem with John Kerry and especially his wife, being a devout Catholic? It has been previously intimated by some of our board members that Catholics are hypocritical because of the appearance of a conflict between the requirements of their faith and the reality of this World and of civil service.

From my memory of recent discussions on the subject, most that held this position were from the left side of the aisle and have expressed support for many of the Democrats in this primary run. So with this in mind, do those of you that hold this position think Kerry cannot serve this country and perform his duty, which may include sending men into battle, because of his faith? Do you feel the Catholic Church and or his religious beliefs will have a sectarian influence over his decision making? Will this influence your vote in any primary, and should he get the nomination, influence your vote in the general election? Or is your hatred of George Bush greater than your previously posted, principled arguments?
 

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I have a problem with people who "know" what god wants.

Live Steam said:
Since this topic has been discussed in essence, but not in context, do any of you have a problem with John Kerry and especially his wife, being a devout Catholic? It has been previously intimated by some of our board members that Catholics are hypocritical because of the appearance of a conflict between the requirements of their faith and the reality of this World and of civil service.

From my memory of recent discussions on the subject, most that held this position were from the left side of the aisle and have expressed support for many of the Democrats in this primary run. So with this in mind, do those of you that hold this position think Kerry cannot serve this country and perform his duty, which may include sending men into battle, because of his faith? Do you feel the Catholic Church and or his religious beliefs will have a sectarian influence over his decision making? Will this influence your vote in any primary, and should he get the nomination, influence your vote in the general election? Or is your hatred of George Bush greater than your previously posted, principled arguments?
Didn't we do this in 1960 ?
It almost sounds like you should be wearing a sheet, but I won't say that cuz' I'm guessing that you're just saying this to stir things up.
Personally, I don't trust ANYBODY who wears their religion on their sleve, and would love it if a candidate would say:" I have my thoughts on religion, but they're my thoughts, and I won't try to get you to change yours, or force you to follow mine."
 

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Lol!!!!!!

MR_GRUMPY said:
Didn't we do this in 1960 ?
It almost sounds like you should be wearing a sheet, but I won't say that cuz' I'm guessing that you're just saying this to stir things up.
Personally, I don't trust ANYBODY who wears their religion on their sleve, and would love it if a candidate would say:" I have my thoughts on religion, but they're my thoughts, and I won't try to get you to change yours, or force you to follow mine."
Great picture Bill. I have to say that one hits the nail squarely on the head.
 

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Nicely said. A good percentage of the population was convinced that JFK's first allegiance would be to the Pope, rather than the United States. LS can't seem to make up his mind about the Catholic issue. Not long ago, his Republican idols were on the attack, accusing Democrats of anti-Catholic bias because they opposed Catholic appointees to the federal bench. Plenty of Catholics, on the right and left were justly outraged by the attack. Schwarzenegger's a Catholic, and he's willing to send convicts off to the gas chamber despite the church's opposition to the death penalty. IMO, raising a politician's politics, whether as a sword or shield, is a cheap trick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Maybe you didn't read my post closely enough

I am Catholic and obviously have no problem with a Catholic in the Oval office. My question was directed at those here who have made statements about people such as Arnold. They're cynical rants about one either not being able to perform his/her duty as a public servant or be true to their religion because of the appearance of a conflict of ideals. I want to know if they can support electing someone like John Kerry who is obviously a Catholic. He was concerned enough about his faith that he had his first marriage annulled in order to marry Teresa, who has been represented as "a devout Catholic". Do they hate George Bush enough to place the fate of the Free World in the hands of a man who's religion states that the Pope is the leader of the faith and the leader of the followers of that faith. I also want to know if they believe he can send men/women into battle to defend this nation, since that is one apparent conflict between his faith and his duty as president.

Go back and read some of the statements that have been made here about Catholics. Personally, I think they were reprehensible. Now I want to know how committed the pundits here are to their convictions, or were they just expressing their bigotry?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
mickey-mac said:
IMO, raising a politician's politics, whether as a sword or shield, is a cheap trick.
Did you mean "raising a politician's religion"?

I guess it's all politics. It seems to me that Democrats recently have been on the attack by blocking any chance of some of Bush's bench nominees from getting consideration because they are Catholic. Posters here have said their religious beliefs would preclude them from acting on the law as written. They fear an activist approach from these nominees would undermine Roe v Wade. I think asking about how Kerry's religion would effect his decision making is fair in this instance considering how Catholics have been portrayed by some on this board. Personally I would hope that this wouldn't be a factor, but I want to hear that from those that have had some negative things to say about Catholicism.
 

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Typo

Live Steam said:
Did you mean "raising a politician's religion"?

I guess it's all politics. It seems to me that Democrats recently have been on the attack by blocking any chance of some of Bush's bench nominees from getting consideration because they are Catholic. Posters here have said their religious beliefs would preclude them from acting on the law as written. They fear an activist approach from these nominees would undermine Roe v Wade. I think asking about how Kerry's religion would effect his decision making is fair in this instance considering how Catholics have been portrayed by some on this board. Personally I would hope that this wouldn't be a factor, but I want to hear that from those that have had some negative things to say about Catholicism.
Right, I meant "religion." It doesn't make sense as stated, which would put it in line with many of my other posts.

As far as judicial nominees go, their records should speak for themselves. If they express extremist views-whether because of religious or philosophical beliefs-those views obviously must be considered in determining whether they are confirmed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Agree, but ....

that is not what the records show for those that have been opposed. They have proved to be fair on the issues and have toed the line. They have never been considered "activist" jurists. Actually I have never heared of an activist jurist that is considered to be conservative. I don't think the two go together.

How about the Kerry issue? Does his religion come into play? Gotta go Daytona is back on ;) Actually I not a really big fan of NASCAR, but it looks unbelievable in HD :D
 

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Live Steam said:
He was concerned enough about his faith that he had his first marriage annulled in order to marry Teresa, who has been represented as "a devout Catholic".
Actually, Steam, I believe the timeline was that he had his marriage to his 1st wife annulled two years after he was already married to Teresa. But you're correct, the change from a divorce to an annullment was due to Teresa being a devout Catholic.

Whether or not Kerry is a practicing Catholic now doesn't concern me, nor do I care that his paternal grandfather was Jewish. But, as a non-practicing Catholic myself (neither pro- nor anti-), I'm not one of the posters to whom you've directed your question. ;)
 

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I'm not pro-kerry, but I'll bite. It doesn't bother me at all that he is catholic. My preference for a president would be that the individual professes faith in God. In particular, I would want that person to be a practicing Christian.
 

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The Church may have a problem, but I don't . . .

Live Steam said:
Since this topic has been discussed in essence, but not in context, do any of you have a problem with John Kerry and especially his wife, being a devout Catholic?
Before I respond, I will disclose my biases: First, I am a Democrat who cannot wait to vote for someone, anyone, to replace GWB. Second, I am a Catholic who has several issues with the Church hierarchy.

I do not think that fact that any candidate for public office in the US is a Catholic should have any bearing on a voter's choice. I believe this both as a matter of principle and for practical reasons. Insofar as principle is concerned, I do not believe that a candidate's religious beliefs, or lack thereof, should be relevant as to whether he or she should be elected. But, perhaps more to the point of your question, I do not believe that a candidate's being a Catholic should have any bearing on whether he or she should be elected.

The Catholic Church's articulated policy preferences that are relevant to US politics cut across party and ideological lines. For example, the conservative Republicans who support the Church's position on abortion often oppose the Church's position on things such as capital punishment and war (i.e., GWB). Conversely, many Democrats who are pro-choice often support the Church's position on economic issues and international policy.

I think that the bigger problem is that the Church may try to increase its pronouncements on US political issues if the President is a Catholic. When JFK was president, I think that the Church was very careful to give him room and not publicly try to influence him on policy decisions. Today, I think that the Church is much more confident about articulating its policy views to the public and to Catholic politicians. It is inevitable that any US President is going to come into conflict with the Church's position on some policy given that the Church's policy views do not fit well with the right-left, Republican-Democratic divide in US politics. Any Catholic politician faced with a policy ultimatum from the Church on a policy issue will have but two choices, tell the Church to take a hike or commit political suicide by admitting to his or her taking orders from Rome. I have known many politicians and I have yet to meet one that is suicidal (at least in a political sense). Thus, the real risk of a Catholic president is that the Church may invite criticism or dissent from its most prominent member. I would hope that the Church hierarchy would be smart enough not to provoke such a fight. But, given the tin ear to public opinion that many of the Church hierarchy have shown with respect to things like the priest pedophilia scandal, I do not have much hope.
 

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This post is insane.

Live Steam said:

From my memory of recent discussions on the subject, most that held this position were from the left side of the aisle and have expressed support for many of the Democrats in this primary run.

Please cite any Democrat or 'leftist' in American public life who has made any anti-Catholic reference vis a vis who could or should be elected president. What are you basing this crazy statement on, something you ran across on one of your many crackpot right wing *news" websites? Citations, please.

Some people left and right have been critical of the church especially in light of the vast molestation scandal but it's frankly nutty as hell to impugn what you're saying here to the Democrats, to liberals, or to the left. Get a grip, man.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You're not paying attention again

You need to stop your useless posts about "sniffing glue" and start paying attention to what you are responding to. I didn't make any reference to public officials. My question was directed at members of this board who in the past have made what I consider to be bigoted and denigrating remarks about Christians and specifically Catholics.
I would like them to weigh in on the idea of whether or not they can vote for Kerry who is devout enough to have had his first marriage annulled so that he could be wed again in a Catholic church to keep his good standing within that same Catholic church. I want them to make their position clear on whether or not they feel he can be true to his faith, yet perform his responsibilities as president. I think it's a reasonable question considering their prior posts regarding the Christian ethic and the reality of serving public office. Will these same posters be true to their thoughts or will their hatred of Bush cause them to forsake their bigoted ideas?

 

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Name the posters and cite the posts please. Never seen any such statements here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You either haven't been paying attention or ...

don't want to admit it. Why don't you do your own search. I have seen the type of thing I referred to, on may occasions. You will probably have to search the old format board for it. However to refresh your memory think about issues such as gay marriage, abortion, the death penalty, judicial nominees and the war. Let us know what you find!
 

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And then you of course make the

leap from a liberal position on these issues to smearing people with **anti-Cathlic bigotry.** I should have known as much, there's no surprise here, just the usual right wing smear, probably got it off a great website.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I thought I read that she ...

wouldn't marry him unless he had the annullment, but I may be mistaken. Same here for me. We don't go to church, but should my wife and I have children, we would have them make all the sacrements and give them the opportunity to choose what roll religion would have in their lives.
 

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I seem to recall your little post about

this ** dependancy class** you despise so much. I can take that as anti-black bigotry then? Since we're leaping and smearing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
That must be you bigoted mind ...

reacting in that way, to come to that conclusion. I don't beileve that color/race plays a roll. Welfare is received by more white Americans than any one race. Nice try though :D
 
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