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I've owned both and like both. Personally I think lugs suit old skool paint finishes and filleted more modern. Weight and cost is roughly the same but fillet brazing allows greater variation in geometry, mixing tubes etc.

I had the same dilema last August when back in the UK. I ordered a custom Chas Roberts (I've had 3 fillet brazed frames from them in the past, never lugged). I want 953 which they can't fillet braze easily and only offer as a lugged frame. I umed and ahed over the two for a while but in the end went with their wonderfully smooth fillets and I'm glad I did, the result is stupendous.

I haven't posted pix of the completed build but with SRAM Force etc it came in at 16.5lbs, would have been under 16lbs quite easily but I used a few heavy/cheap parts I had lying around.

At the end of the day it just comes down to looks! Sorry for the blatant repost of my new frame (a bad back and poor weather down in NZ means it's gone unridden for 6 weeks - boohoo).

Check out Roberts Flickr gallery for a few more examples of both.

DannyBoy:thumbsup:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertscycles/
 

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depends on the builder I chose

if he was known for fillet brazing I'd choose that, if he was known for lugs I'd choose that
but most likely I'd seek a builder who does lugs
 

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Boobies!
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DannyBoy said:
I've owned both and like both. Personally I think lugs suit old skool paint finishes and filleted more modern. Weight and cost is roughly the same but fillet brazing allows greater variation in geometry, mixing tubes etc.

I had the same dilema last August when back in the UK. I ordered a custom Chas Roberts (I've had 3 fillet brazed frames from them in the past, never lugged). I want 953 which they can't fillet braze easily and only offer as a lugged frame. I umed and ahed over the two for a while but in the end went with their wonderfully smooth fillets and I'm glad I did, the result is stupendous.

I haven't posted pix of the completed build but with SRAM Force etc it came in at 16.5lbs, would have been under 16lbs quite easily but I used a few heavy/cheap parts I had lying around.

At the end of the day it just comes down to looks! Sorry for the blatant repost of my new frame (a bad back and poor weather down in NZ means it's gone unridden for 6 weeks - boohoo).

Check out Roberts Flickr gallery for a few more examples of both.

DannyBoy:thumbsup:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertscycles/
Missed this when you first posted--that is a beautiful, beautiful frame. One day I'll get back to Roberts with money in pocket & get mine--instead of only getting to watch my friends order theirs...
 

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Coco Puff
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I have a Rex. It is my favorite bike. My suggestion would be to go filet, he does really nice work.
 

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Folsom City Blues...
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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Cool, think you could post a photo of your fillet brazed Rex? I'm sure other folks would like to have a look too. I'm still leaning towards a two color lugged combo, but the jury is still out. I asked Steve to hold up on the build till at least Tues to let me think on it for couple of days.

Peace :cool:
 

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Folsom City Blues...
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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
Thank you all kindly for chiming in with your thoughts. Believe or not, it helped immensely to read all your comments during the weekend. Since this is my first time doing a custom build, I've decided to do lugs the first time around, in a couple of years I'll may do a fillet brazed build. Ive been wanting a custom lugged build for about the last four years, so I'm going for it.

I spent most of Sunday looking at the lug makers that Steve Rex uses and I've decided on a set by Rene Singer. It took me some time to chose this set of lugs. I didn't want the lugs to be too simple looking, but I also didn't want the lugs to be too busy looking either. I'm still not sure if I want to have the lugs polished yet as I'm still not sure of the color combo yet. I'm sure it will be two tone with the head tube and borders being the same color and the rest of the bike being another color.

Here are some photos of the lugs I've decided on;
 

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old school drop out
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Touch0Gray said:
it really is...and apparently it was a pretty good way to make a bike.....too bad it went bye-bye....
Hmmm... have you ever weighed a Varsity frame? My 1978ish Varsity road bike was about 45 pounds. Electro-forging worked will with tube sets that were thicker than gas pipes. I'm not so sure if it would have worked well with high-end steel. ;)

But it is too bad that it's gone forever.
 

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Oh yes on that choice of lugs.

And I always figured that my mid '60's Schwinn Continental had to have been made out of solid bars of steel as no tubing could weigh that much.
 

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It has been said many times already but the choice of lugged vs. fillet is entirely up to you, the customer. In some applications I like lugged and others I like fillet. Both have pros and cons.

Depending on lug choice the cost of materials can be higher on lugged but the clean-up and finish time on fillet is longer. In the end the cost is about a wash (do you want to spend more on materials or more on labor?)

Most road bikes I build are lugged. Most mountain bikes I build are fillet. Cyclocross bikes are a 6-5 pick 'em. As a matter of fact, I built six cross frames for this year's team. Half are lugged and half are fillet brazed.

Bottom line, I don't really have much to contribute to the conversation but I just felt chatty.

Tim
Shamrock Cycles
 

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I'd go with lugged, but that's a personal aesthetic preference. The only real issue that might - might - be an issue is repairability. Let's say you need to have a tube replaced. The lugged frame essentially keeps the flame slightly further away from the adjoining tube end, and the extra metal of the lug can act both as an insulator and as an additional strength member, imparting extra strength to the join. The fillet brazed frame joins tube directly to tube, so both tube ends will be heated, both the damaged and non-damaged tubes. That could lead to some loss of structural strength in the non-damaged tube, depending upon the steel used and the heat applied to the weld. Of course, that's also largely in the skill of the frame repair shop, as much as anything else.
 

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I just had one built up fillet brazed with very small fillets- nice and light.

I went with fillet brazing for a couple reasons- one, it's really clean. two, it's really easy to clean. and three, it's a lot easier to powdercoat a fillet brazed frame than it is to powdercoat lugs.

But then, I was having my bike built to be an all weather bike that'll spend a lot of time as a commuter. So there's that.

I like that there are no lugs which makes it nice and low key.
 

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aptivaboy said:
The only real issue that might - might - be an issue is repairability. Let's say you need to have a tube replaced. [...]
I used to ride with a guy who had a lugged Serotta. He'd had this frame for several years, and had sent it back to Serotta 2 or 3 times to repair crash damage, and a couple more times for a complete re-spray. Each time, a tube would be replaced here or there, and by the time I first saw the frame, he told me the only orginal tube left on the bike was the seat tube -- all other tubes had been replaced.

It seems to me that a custom steel bike would be something you'd want to keep for years. It'd be nice to know that you could replaced damaged or corroded tubes as needed, and still keep the same bike.
 

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old school drop out
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martylane said:
It seems to me that a custom steel bike would be something you'd want to keep for years. It'd be nice to know that you could replaced damaged or corroded tubes as needed, and still keep the same bike.
Lugged and fillet brazed bikes can both have tubes removed as needed. Welded frames permanently join the two tubes together by heating both tubes and fusing them together. Fillet brazing does not heat the tube up to it's melting point - it heats up another material with a lower melting point and encases the tube junction to hold it together. If the joint is reheated to the point where the fillet material melts away, but below the melting point of the steel tubes, the tubes will separate (just like they would on a lugged joint).
 

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Folsom City Blues...
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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
I love the classic looks of a steel lugged frame and yet, the simple clean look of a fillet brazed frame looks sweet too. I hope to have a fillet brazed frame done in the future. For now I know what lugs I would like to have done on my up coming lugged frame.

I'm still in the air about colors, groupo, wheels, saddle (I'm looking at a Brooks Team Pro classic saddle with Brooks Leather bar tape) seat post, stem, seat collar and handle bars. I'm going to take a trip to Rex Cycles tomorrow and speak to Steve about the lug choice and then I guess Steve will inform me when he'll start to build my bike.

Then it'll be at least three months to build and another month or so for paint. So I'm looking at about four months or so before the frame is built and painted. Looks like I have some time to research the rest of what I can afford to build the frame with.

I'm very excited about this venture and hope to have the Rex before the end of the year just in time for the rainy season. Which means I won't really get a chance to ride it till spring depending on how the rainy season goes. I will try and keep up with the build and post some photos as Steve's building of the bike progresses.

Peace :cool:
 

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Elfstone said:
...., saddle (I'm looking at a Brooks Team Pro classic saddle with Brooks Leather bar tape) ....


SNAP !!! 2004 model, only just built up. :ihih:

The Cinelli Nuovo Supercorsa is a blend of fillet brazed and lugged (BB Shell is lugged), and I love it. I love the seat stay detail on this frame. Tubing is Columbus UltraFoco.

Having said that a fully lugged bike with the right lugs looks super schmick !!!

Hope you love your bike as much as I do. :D
 
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