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So you think they are winning the war on doping. Check this http://www.steroidreport.com/2008/07/21/biosimilar-epo-agents/

The best comment by Phil Ligget, which is entertaining at best.

"So, the magic of yellow has worked again and turned Carlos Sastre into a time triallist after all. Cadel Evans was being seen as an automatic winner of the Tour today. After all all he had to do was bridge a gap of 94 seconds against a man he beat by 153 at a similar stage of the race last year."

Its funny that every time the magic of “yellow” turned some little climber into a TT specialist, it turns out it was the magic of dope. Ala Pantani


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A BBC investigation suggests that most athletes who use recombinant human erythropoietin (EPO) continue to get away with it. The investigative article reveals several reasons why the EPO test is failing. But the BBC revealed that the biggest problem is not the ineffectiveness of the existing EPO tests used by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). It is a lack of testing for variants of EPO.

Athletes are using various “biosimilar” EPO agents for which WADA has not yet developed a detection method. WADA’s ballyhooed test for the previously undetectable Mircera (pegylated EPO) was an admission that the already flawed existing EPO test was unable to detect variants of EPO; the announcement of the new CERA (Mircera) test at the 2008 Tour de France was considered a major victory.

There are also dozens of “copycat” or “biosimilar” versions of EPO. These are variants of EPO that are produced by different methods or exist as slightly different biological forms of EPO e.g. darbepoetin alfa, epoetin alfa, epoetin beta, epoetin gamma, epoetin delta, epoetin epsilon, epoetin zeta, epoetin theta, epoetin kappa, epoetin omega. The existence of biosimilar versions of EPO is a major problem for drug testers (”Concerns over Olympic drug test,” July 21).

Because the medicine has been so successful financially, companies in India, China and Cuba have developed drugs that do a similar job in the body, but have a slightly different molecular fingerprint. These cheap versions of EPO, often called biosimilars, can be easily bought over the internet.

[...]

“There are now a number of compounds that bind to the EPO receptor, and there is no single test for them, you can order it here over the internet and it will be delivered to you here in the UK or in Germany; Chinese-made doping substances” [according to Professor Werner Franke].

Some scientists who track and monitor the development of copycat EPO drugs say there could be up to 80 different versions now being manufactured in different parts of the world.

A few biosimilar versions are available in the EU and Eastern Europe; however, a plethora of doping options are commercially available with biosimilar EPO pharmaceuticals produced around the world, particularly in Southeast Asia, several of which could be purchased inexpensively over the internet.
 

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UCI and WADA cannot win...but they can or should I say have wrecked the sport of pro cycling.

Here is the reason why they cannot win.

As long as millions are to be made in pro sport doping simply cannot stop...no matter how good or how tough the controls are. It's that simple and to think otherwise would be deluding ourselves.

All the riders want a piece of the pie. Here are their choices>>>don't dope and maybe do OK at best and retire poor with no education, or dope and maybe, just maybe do great, make a good whack of money and retire secure. We can talk about ethics till the cows come home but when you really understand the two choices you will understand where I am coming from.

Now if the world wants clean cycling then take the money down to only a living wage for all, with no big contracts, no sponsorships, no endorsement contracts etc etc and then and ONLY THEN would you see pro's ride for fun and the experience of it all and retire to their College education that they accomplished before the adventure.
But that isn't going to happen in this world.


Cheers
 

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Realgains said:
UCI and WADA cannot win...but they can or should I say have wrecked the sport of pro cycling.

Here is the reason why they cannot win.

As long as millions are to be made in pro sport doping simply cannot stop...no matter how good or how tough the controls are. It's that simple and to think otherwise would be deluding ourselves.

All the riders want a piece of the pie. Here are there choices>>>don't dope and maybe do OK at best and retire poor with no education, or dope and maybe, just maybe do great, make a good whack of money and retire secure. We can talk about ethics till the cows come home but when you really understand the two choices you will understand where I am coming from.

Now if the world wants clean cycling then take the money down to only a living wage for all, with no big contracts, no sponsorships, no endorsement contracts etc etc and then and ONLY THEN would you see pro's ride for fun and the experience of it all and retire to their College education that they accomplished before the adventure.
But that isn't going to happen in this world.


Cheers
Nail. Hammer. Head.

Well said.
 

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Realgains said:
Now if the world wants clean cycling then take the money down to only a living wage for all, with no big contracts, no sponsorships, no endorsement contracts etc etc and then and ONLY THEN would you see pro's ride for fun and the experience of it all and retire to their College education that they accomplished before the adventure.
But that isn't going to happen in this world.
Cheers
What you're suggesting here is to go back to some form of amateur or semi-amateur athletics.
We already experimented with that concept and it didn't work since Eastern European countries basically inducted all of their athletes to their respective armed forces, so they became professional soldiers but in reality all they did was train and dope.
In today's world this would give the advantage to the rich countries who can afford to actually pay their athletes for a living. Most African, Asian and South American countries won't produce any athletes, period.
The only other alternative is to kill all sports.
I don't see any of these happening. Do you?
 

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MG537 said:
What you're suggesting here is to go back to some form of amateur or semi-amateur athletics.
We already experimented with that concept and it didn't work since Eastern European countries basically inducted all of their athletes to their respective armed forces, so they became professional soldiers but in reality all they did was train and dope.
In today's world this would give the advantage to the rich countries who can afford to actually pay their athletes for a living. Most African, Asian and South American countries won't produce any athletes, period.
The only other alternative is to kill all sports.
I don't see any of these happening. Do you?

Good points and they are correct.

I am not suggesting that we go back to some form of amateur sporting world....I was just stating that the only way to stop doping is to take the money out of pro sports.

I will give you personal opinion then>>>>stop all testing in pro sport. It's a waste of time and money and it ruins careers and the sport. Then "loud mouths" like Armstrong won't be spewing forth BS about how clean they are, and telling others to ride clean, and telling the public that "it can be done clean".



The Red Army athletes were doping in amateur sport to win for Communism....and the athletes were well cared for in comparison to the general public. So again, it comes down to money and lifestyle for them and the push to convert the world to communism by the government. I will add that not doping was not a choice so they were actually forced to dope or their asses would be in Siberia in the salt mines.
The communist world no longer has the "system" or money to do what the old USSR did, save for China>>>>but China has never stopped.

Pro athletes are not actually "forced" to dope...they choose to dope because they have to to be successful. There was a time when you could race clean and win IF and only IF you were a true freak like Lemond, with a recorded 94 VO2 max, who I personally believe only took cortico steroids and only when injured. But with the advent of blood doping and epo the super talented cannot win against a doped talented rider.

As far as the poor countries not being able to produce any athletes that are competitive at all...well yes that's true but it's pretty much true the way things are now anyway. Few people, save for the rich, can spend any time in any sport in the 3rd world.



Cheers
 
G

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Very sad

Well, LA has already said it (wish I could find the YouTube interview), but as we move into the arena of DNA* based enhancements we will have no choice but to view sport simply as entertainment.

I think it was in '92 when Greg Lemond lost an ~60km ITT to Indurain by 4 minutes! This is despite Greg's insane VO2 max and much lower (and better) position on the bike (because he could still get plenty of air that way). Indurain did use a 'sort of' areo helment, but he was so high on the bike I don't think it really helped much. The begining of the end I suppose. Science had finally produced a drug that could create huge gains for athletes engaged in sports that are bound by physiologically imposed aerobic limits.

For now, we can win - but only by extreme measures like taking small blood samples of the top 30 GC men just b/4 each stage and running their HCTs during the race. But in what, a decade, that could all change :(. The only solution would be to require DNA samples of all athletes early in their careers - but late starters could slip through the cracks.


*I don't know if modified viral induced RNA changes will come first. I can't keep up with area of R&D.
 

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AJL said:
For now, we can win - but only by extreme measures like taking small blood samples of the top 30 GC men just b/4 each stage and running their HCTs during the race. But in what, a decade, that could all change :(. The only solution would be to require DNA samples of all athletes early in their careers - but late starters could slip through the cracks.


*I don't know if modified viral induced RNA changes will come first. I can't keep up with area of R&D.
With Sponsors leaving... this takes the money away, I think that has made a 'dent'... And with the above measures, maybe a bigger dent... but then the problem is the corrupt.. so I don't know...
 
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