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Forever a Student
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So most all of the new hitters in town are in the test. The Pinarello F8 is not, the Colnago V1-R is not but many are. Some manufacturers just don't like to submit bikes I think. Anyway.

They tested the bikes with stock issued wheels which is the blue bars.
They tested the bikes with Zipp 404 Firestrikes which is the black bars.



The above is the quick and dirty of the test and rankings. Yup, you read it right, there might be a surprise or two to some but not others.

More detail in pictures below:









From discussion here:
TOUR MAG AERO TEST 2016 - Weight Weenies
 

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Would be interesting to see a few regular not specifically designed for aero bikes in there. I say that as someone who prefers longer races and rides and things comfort and not getting beat up has a lot to do with speed.

Kind of stupid that 1/3rd of the ranking to do with shifting and braking IMO.
 

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Can't read the words of the articles since they're too small.

Anyway, my takeaway points are

1. Specialized Vias failed to live up to Specialized marketing as the fastest road bike. This has got to be a sorethumb for Specialized marketing.

2. The latest Zipp 404 Firestrikes ain't worth the price. The biggest time saving is a measely 1 minute in a 3hr 21min race. Drafting is better. The ONLY time anyone should be using Zipp 404 Firestrike is if they're racing a TT, yup, that's about it. And btw, what's up with the scaling of the graphs??? They Tour magazine decided to scale the time graphs, it makes that a 1-min saving by Zipp 404 look like a whooping 25% time saving (if you just look at the bar graphs).

3. Cervelo external cables and standard Shimano caliper brakes only cost them 1 watt?? That's pretty amazing compared to others doing internal cabling and proprietary integrated aero brakes. Props to Cervelo here.
 

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Coming soon...

Canyon Bikes USA Sales Forthcoming | Bike Magazine

I do find it funny their branding has issues in the EU, because other companies in countries like Switzerland already own the "Canyon" branding.
Really interesting, looking forward to it.

“We really need to nail the high-standard quality to achieve the great success overseas that we’ve seen here,” Aldorf said. “The U.S. is very spoiled with customer service. We have to step up our game if we’re going to play a successful role in the market. We’re after return customers not one-time shoppers.”
Americans can get loud if they are unhappy. It's good that he realizes this. But by the same token, if Americans are satisfied, then they'll also tend to rave and priase over the top too. So it works out both ways.
 

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1. Specialized Vias failed to live up to Specialized marketing as the fastest road bike. This has got to be a sorethumb for Specialized marketing.
If this was your take-away from the Venge Vias marketing, then you need to go back and re-read it. That's not what the marketing claimed at all. Just saying.

2. The latest Zipp 404 Firestrikes ain't worth the price. The biggest time saving is a measely 1 minute in a 3hr 21min race. Drafting is better. The ONLY time anyone should be using Zipp 404 Firestrike is if they're racing a TT, yup, that's about it. And btw, what's up with the scaling of the graphs??? They Tour magazine decided to scale the time graphs, it makes that a 1-min saving by Zipp 404 look like a whooping 25% time saving (if you just look at the bar graphs).
Ain't worth the price... that really all depends on your financial outlook. Surely, bang for the buck isn't the highest, but keep in mind that you're also comparing the Zip 404 against the stock wheels... not necessarily "crappy" wheels. Some of those bikes come with fantastic wheels... some don't. Its entirely possible that if you've got a bike with great wheels on it already, you'll spend the money and see no difference. I did notice the scaling and thought it was whack too, though. I hate when information is doctored like that.

3. Cervelo external cables and standard Shimano caliper brakes only cost them 1 watt?? That's pretty amazing compared to others doing internal cabling and proprietary integrated aero brakes. Props to Cervelo here.
I think the cables and brakes are really just marginal gains.... not worth much, but when you've essentially gained all that you can in other areas of frame design, cleaning up the brakes and cables is all that's left. Its high-hanging fruit, when all of the low-hanging fruit has been picked clean.
 

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To me, the biggest take away is that the Felt AR continues to prove itself to be an incredible value. Great bike, great performer at a great price.
 

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Would be interesting to see a few regular not specifically designed for aero bikes in there. I say that as someone who prefers longer races and rides and things comfort and not getting beat up has a lot to do with speed...
Out of this list, you'd really like the Madone. Great ride qualities, as good or better than most so-called endurance bikes.
 

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Out of this list, you'd really like the Madone. Great ride qualities, as good or better than most so-called endurance bikes.
Good to know, Thanks. I hear Parlee is really good in this regard also.

To expand on my "comfort = speed" theory: I always suspected as much but recently proved it to myself. For the last 5 years I've had a super stiff (the highest according to Tour in the year it was made) carbon race bike and have had no problems riding centuries and thought I was as comfortable as a roadie could expect to be. So this year I got a second steel CX bike for the purpose of getting off road and using big tires on road when I don't want to ride fast.
Due to the bigger tires it's more comfortable then my all out race bike. I expected this but figured with the extra weight and bigger tires I might give up a little speed.
So I've taken this steel CX bike to a few really long group rides and there's no question I'm faster past the 80 or so mile point than I was on my race bike. So what's making me faster? The fit is identical and it definitely aint the extra 3 pounds, extra spokes or more durable tires.....so it's gotta be the more plush ride.
I'd still choose the stiff carbon bike for races or fast rides < 50 or so miles but past that I'm convinced comfort/plush is the name of the game for speed.
 

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I find the results to be very curious. This months Velo magazine puts the Venge ViAS (interestingly, not the S-Works ViAS) and Trek Madone 9.9 against each other and in terms of aerodynamics, the Venge wins... which, obviously, contradicts this test. So I wonder what the different results...

I still think the scaling of the graphs is horrendous... between the best and work bikes tested, there's about 2:20 difference (that's 2 minutes and 20 seconds), over 3 hours and 20 minutes... that's a 1.25% difference.
 

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I'm not impressed by the watt saving differences between all these bikes, not one bit. It may perhaps matter if you were doing a time trial, but people don't buy these bikes for tt'ing. However, the difference in money spent in R&D (I assume) and marketing between the top brand (especially Specialized) and the lesser brand is probably staggering.

Hell, even the difference between the top aero bike and the classic round-tube bike, the difference ain't even all that much. And I'll bet if you just take some obscure Taiwanese brand aero bike and put it to this test, it'll also do very well just like the Merida and Fuji

For example take this obscure Taiwanese bike and put it to the test and it'll probably be right there in the mix, and won't put you in any one bit of advantage in a real race (because real races involve many higher factor than just frame aerodynamic). But thanks to marketing, weekend racers think they gotta have the best or else they'd be at a massive advantage on the Saturday club ride!

Bicycle frame Bicycle tire Tire Bicycle wheel Wheel
 

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I find the results to be very curious. This months Velo magazine puts the Venge ViAS (interestingly, not the S-Works ViAS) and Trek Madone 9.9 against each other and in terms of aerodynamics, the Venge wins... which, obviously, contradicts this test. So I wonder what the different results...

I still think the scaling of the graphs is horrendous... between the best and work bikes tested, there's about 2:20 difference (that's 2 minutes and 20 seconds), over 3 hours and 20 minutes... that's a 1.25% difference.
What's the test protocol over there? Protocol is everything and plays a large part in influencing the outcomes in these sort of tests. The best frames are probably ones that can do well in multiple different tests. Having said that, there is only a miniscule difference between the best aero frames and worst when compared to other external conditions that these frame are used in.

I looked at the scaling again. And they had to use that sort of magnified scaling, because to use a full scale of the time graph, well that 1.25% difference will just show up as "no difference" on the graph, and that will not sit well with the readers. Who wants to read a test showing little difference right? Gotta show the difference, magnify it if you have to, to impress the internet.
 

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I find the results to be very curious. This months Velo magazine puts the Venge ViAS (interestingly, not the S-Works ViAS) and Trek Madone 9.9 against each other and in terms of aerodynamics, the Venge wins... which, obviously, contradicts this test. So I wonder what the different results...

I still think the scaling of the graphs is horrendous... between the best and work bikes tested, there's about 2:20 difference (that's 2 minutes and 20 seconds), over 3 hours and 20 minutes... that's a 1.25% difference.
I haven't seen Velo's results yet, but the Tour Magazine test included weight of the bike as a factor and some climbing, hence the Venge not getting the fastest. I think in pure aerodynamics data only, it has the less drag.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I'm not impressed by the watt saving differences between all these bikes, not one bit.
And you're right not to be. They're simply not impressive at all.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Your frame means **** all.
How you set up your cockpit and your position are king.


That being said, you know what actually really matters in life? Comfort. The more comfortable you are the more power you produce and the higher cadence you can run. You know what else actually matters? Braking. No need to explain why.

So which bikes have the best comfort and braking here? Those are the ones to look at for yourself.
 

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And you're right not to be. They're simply not impressive at all.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Your frame means **** all.
How you set up your cockpit and your position are king.


That being said, you know what actually really matters in life? Comfort. The more comfortable you are the more power you produce and the higher cadence you can run. You know what else actually matters? Braking. No need to explain why.

So which bikes have the best comfort and braking here? Those are the ones to look at for yourself.
ymssra...
 

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And you're right not to be. They're simply not impressive at all.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Your frame means **** all.
How you set up your cockpit and your position are king.


That being said, you know what actually really matters in life? Comfort. The more comfortable you are the more power you produce and the higher cadence you can run. You know what else actually matters? Braking. No need to explain why.

So which bikes have the best comfort and braking here? Those are the ones to look at for yourself.
Agreed. If you're really bored or want something to put yourself to sleep I noted my 'theory' on comfort = speed below.
 
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