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aka Zonic Man
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What would your choice be? This is for road races and crits. For a 125 lbs. sprinter chick. Should be relatively stiff.

She's riding Neutrons as race wheels now, Cosmos as training wheels.

These would be a race-only wheelset. Must be Campy compatible.
 

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Zipp or Am-Classic carbon tubs...

At her weight, the 303's would provide plenty of strength. If whe wants something more aero than the 404's are a good choice.

Am-Classic offers the Zipp rims built with standard spokes and Am-classic hubs. They are a little cheaper and have a more durable build.
 

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Old, slow, and fat.
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Depends on the crit...

Jed Peters said:
What would your choice be? This is for road races and crits. For a 125 lbs. sprinter chick. Should be relatively stiff.

She's riding Neutrons as race wheels now, Cosmos as training wheels.

These would be a race-only wheelset. Must be Campy compatible.
For short, turny crits, GEL280s and some lightweight spokes
For more open circuit race-type races 404s
For something in the middle, I run Ritchey Pro wheels, but the recommendee could run WCS
For hilly RR, probably either 303s if there's lots of climbing, or 404s if its rolling

That help?

Mike
 

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Jed Peters said:
What would your choice be? This is for road races and crits. For a 125 lbs. sprinter chick. Should be relatively stiff.

She's riding Neutrons as race wheels now, Cosmos as training wheels.

These would be a race-only wheelset. Must be Campy compatible.
For anything but the steepest climbing races, a deep profile rim like the Zipp 404's on any quality hub will
be the best choice. Aero trumps drag in almost any situation except very steep climbs. The 200 grams she
would save with GEL 280's vs. Zipp 404's is a difference of only about 0.3% of the total weight of
bike + rider (which is all that matters for climbing and accelerating) but will lower total drag by 2-3%.

A very steep climb is one in which all that matters is overcoming gravity. You can determine when someone
has reached this grade by looking at verticle climbing rate (speedxsin(road angle)) in feet/minute as a function
of road grade. If you plot vertical climbing rate as a function of road grade, you'll find the rate increases until
a critical grade, above which the rate is constant. Above that grade, all the power is going into overcoming
gravity; that is the definition of very steep for that rider.
 

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aka Zonic Man
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Really?

What about in tight crits? Cross-winds (we live in a windy valley).

I wouldn think the 303s would be better...
 

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Jed Peters said:
Really?

What about in tight crits? Cross-winds (we live in a windy valley).

I wouldn think the 303s would be better...
http://www.analyticcycling.com has sample calculations on accelerating out of a corner
and you can do others on your own, but the results are unequivacal. The slight weight penalty
for deep section rims is always overcome by the reduced aero drag. I've looked at crits with
8 turns in less than 1K and aero still comes out ahead. As for crosswinds, assuming you
can control the wheel, the aero benefit increases as the wind comes more from the side.

303's are O.K. but at 38 mm depth, they have limited aero benefit compared to a rim deeper
than 50mm.
 

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Jed Peters said:
Really?

What about in tight crits? Cross-winds (we live in a windy valley).

I wouldn think the 303s would be better...
He's right. Aerodynamics is far more important than weight which is more important than inertia.

If you put a bike with a powermeter in a workstand and turn the cranks by hand to simulate accelerating from 0 mph (which is a far more drastic acceleration than jumping out of corners in a crit), it would even register a single watt. Or so I've been told by someone who's tried it.

The 404s also seem to be more robust than the 303s which seem to crack when you hit potholes whereas people have used their 404s for cyclocross.

In about two months I'm getting a set of 404 rims to build onto Chris King hubs. But in the back of my mind I wonder if a pair of Hed H3 tri-spokes would be a better choice.
 

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Jed Peters said:
What would your choice be? This is for road races and crits. For a 125 lbs. sprinter chick. Should be relatively stiff.

She's riding Neutrons as race wheels now, Cosmos as training wheels.

These would be a race-only wheelset. Must be Campy compatible.
Does she want tubulars or clinchers? I'd go 28 spokes with your basic Mavic Open Pro or Reflex rims, laced to Campy hubs in this case. Crit wheels get beat up and crashed and you'll want to be able to rebuild them easily. I don't see the point of aero rim, which won't do much for you in a crit or in a pack, and can act funny in crosswinds--ESPECIALLY for a light weigh rider. Keep it simple--what you really want in racing is reliability.
 

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Henry Chinaski said:
Crit wheels get beat up and crashed and you'll want to be able to rebuild them easily.
Yes and that's the drawback to Zipp rims, but there are a lot of aluminum deep profile rims which are a little heavier but a lot cheaper. Otherwise, other than cost of a new rim, the Zipp's are easily rebuildable.

Henry Chinaski said:
I don't see the point of aero rim, which won't do much for you in a crit or in a pack, and can act funny in crosswinds--ESPECIALLY for a light weigh rider. Keep it simple--what you really want in racing is reliability.
Even in a pack, a lot of effort is done overcoming aero drag. (see for example the power data from a P,1,2 crit at http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/wheel_theory.htm) So, whatever energy you save through aero equipment in the pack can be used later. Also, if you're racing the object is to be ahead of the pack at the finish, so at some point you have to be in the wind. Reliability is important, but we're talking about race only wheels. You can sacrifice some strength and longevity for performance in wheels which will be ridden only a few hundred miles per year at most.
 

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Another set of Neutrons? If you are looking to senselessly throw money down: Bora.

She's a campy chick, she's worth it.
 

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Zipps/Reynolds...

"No holds barred" wheels would probably be Zipps, Reynolds or other similar super light carbon deep section wheels. If you have the dough, sure why not use them in a crit. There are plenty of great race-specific wheels out there..

Personally, I race on Mavic OP's and feel that high zoot wheels are unnecessary in most amateur races. Maybe I'm just acting like a retro grouch cheapskate, but I feel that there isn't much sense in using the super fancy stuff when most could benefit from just "riding lots". Nothing more peculiar than watching someone roll up in a C40 with Zipps in a Cat5 crit 30lbs overweight....

Wish her luck in the races.. There aren't enough women racing IMHO. We have a race coming up in a couple of weekends and have only a few pre-reg entries for theW's Pro, 1,2's.

Mike
 

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GeekRoadie said:
Maybe I'm just acting like a retro grouch cheapskate, but I feel that there isn't much sense in using the super fancy stuff when most could benefit from just "riding lots". Nothing more peculiar than watching someone roll up in a C40 with Zipps in a Cat5 crit 30lbs overweight....
Mike
I agree there's no equipment which is a better investment than money spent on training such as coaching, massage, training camps, etc. But I still think it's worth differentiating between equipment that does provide a performance advantage (such as wheels) and those that don't (frames).
 

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asgelle said:
Even in a pack, a lot of effort is done overcoming aero drag. (see for example the power data from a P,1,2 crit at http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/wheel_theory.htm) So, whatever energy you save through aero equipment in the pack can be used later. Also, if you're racing the object is to be ahead of the pack at the finish, so at some point you have to be in the wind. Reliability is important, but we're talking about race only wheels. You can sacrifice some strength and longevity for performance in wheels which will be ridden only a few hundred miles per year at most.
Yeah, but she weighs 125. I did most of my racing at around 130-135 and I used to get blown all over the road. Aero rims will make that much worse.
 

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Max-Q said:
Reynolds Stratus DV-UL. Light, rock solid and aero what more do you need?
It would be nice to be able to true the wheel w/o having to take the tire off. Obviously, it wouldn't be a big deal with the clincher version, if there is one. Or if the spoke nipples were at the hub.
 

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Quote: It would be nice to be able to true the wheel w/o having to take the tire off. Obviously, it wouldn't be a big deal with the clincher version, if there is one. Or if the spoke nipples were at the hub.

That's the point of these wheels- You don't need to true them. They have the strongest rims made. They also use the highest spoke tension of any wheel made. I have a set of LEWs and a set of the Reynolds Stratus wheels. I've never had a problem with these wheels and I've never needed to true them and I weigh 215 lbs. These wheels are absolutely awesome.
 

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Well, I prefer to have wheels that can be trued, whether they need it or not. Spoke shape and number have little effect on aerodynamics so I can only imagine spoke nipples have even less of an effect. Is it really worth giving up easy access to the spoke nipples?

I have Lews as well and I'm probably going to replace the rims with Zipp 404s. I'm going to build those up with round, heavy spokes or whatever I can get a good deal on (I'm not paying $60 for a box of 100 spokes and only using 18 of them for the front wheel).
 
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