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That headline would lead me to think the article would have been about his scientific blood values and markers, and how they were normal.

Instead we get a fluff piece on based on opinion and conjecture as to why nobody got away from the chase group on the Alpe d'Huez.

(My conjecture and opinion) I think team tactics of the Schleck brothers disrupting any attacks and slowing the chase group had far more to do with the parity seen among the chase group rather then a sign of clean racing.
 

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bikefool said:
That headline would lead me to think the article would have been about his scientific blood values and markers, and how they were normal.

Instead we get a fluff piece on based on opinion and conjecture as to why nobody got away from the chase group on the Alpe d'Huez.

(My conjecture and opinion) I think team tactics of the Schleck brothers disrupting any attacks and slowing the chase group had far more to do with the parity seen among the chase group rather then a sign of clean racing.
Hit the "Next" button 3/4 down the page. It is 7 pages long and it goes into detail about the testing and his values
 

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VdV's Crit Levels?

I couldn't find any report of Christian's actual hematocrit levels. I saw mention of Millar's Giro crit levels, however. Did I miss something?

Knowing these numbers would be interesting, especially when thinking about RGains's various posts regarding natural crit levels and VdV's impressive riding in the first TT and the mountains.

soup
 

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If he is clean then for starters he needs to make his tour crits known to the public.
If he has a crit of 40-45 then I will belive that he has not microdosed with human identical Dynepo or doped wit his own packed cells(red cells) or both.

Think about this one guys>>>>WHY why why do the so called "clean" riders not allow their crits to be tested before each stage and PUBLISHED? It's super easy to do. All you need is a tiny amount of , like 1/4 of a cc. In fact the riders crits are not published period....because most are at or very close to 50%.


As I have mentioned before I would bet my house that there is not one hard training aerobic athlete in the world with a natural 49-50% crit. It's pretty much universal, and a well known fact, that hard training aerobic men have natural crits that run between 40 and 43.
Even if a guy has a 45-46 crit in the off season the hard aerobic schedule will drop it down.

Also, Eddy Mercyx(caught twice by the way) said that "there is doping and then there is doping". Thanx to China, the Walmart of , HGH is now very cheap as is IGF-1 both of which help a lot in the recovery department and there is no test for them, nor will there ever be, for various reasons,(contrary to what UCI says).

Cheers
 

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Realgains said:
As I have mentioned before I would bet my house that there is not one hard training aerobic athlete in the world with a natural 49-50% crit.
Cheers
Some riders are certified by the UCI to have a hematocrit at 50 or higher like Dario Cioni
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/oct04/oct25news

These riders have to be independently verified at the UCI headquarters in Lausanne, in isolation, tested over 3 days... That's enough for me to believe that an athlete can naturally hit that level. But you're the scientist, so tell me why I'm wrong.
 

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Racer C said:
Some riders are certified by the UCI to have a hematocrit at 50 or higher like Dario Cioni
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/oct04/oct25news

These riders have to be independently verified at the UCI headquarters in Lausanne, in isolation, tested over 3 days... That's enough for me to believe that an athlete can naturally hit that level. But you're the scientist, so tell me why I'm wrong.
Ricco had a certified high hematocrit.

Botero had a high natural testosterone level. It was certified by doctor Fuentes.

Every other rider in the pro peloton is certified with asthma.
 

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Under ACrookedSky said:
Ricco had a certified high hematocrit.

Botero had a high natural testosterone level. It was certified by doctor Fuentes.

Every other rider in the pro peloton is certified with asthma.
Yeah, that's true. It just seems to me that, doping aside, it's possible for an athlete to naturally hit a 50crit. I know that everyone and their mother seems to get medical exceptions, but the stuff that Cioni went through makes it seem possible.
 

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Racer C said:
Yeah, that's true. It just seems to me that, doping aside, it's possible for an athlete to naturally hit a 50crit. I know that everyone and their mother seems to get medical exceptions, but the stuff that Cioni went through makes it seem possible.
If I remember right, the limit of 50% was chosen because only 2% of the male population has a hematocrit that high. The problem is that 2% is in the general population. As you start training, get acclimatized heat, and such, your hematocrit will drop.
 

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Crit don't mean sh!t ......

...well at least according to Ashenden in that Lindsay article, hematacrit is one of the least important values to key in on...

"reticulocyte count and OFF-score, then hemoglobin"....Ashenden

got any specific comments on that article or Ashenden?
 

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Realgains said:
As I have mentioned before I would bet my house that there is not one hard training aerobic athlete in the world with a natural 49-50% crit. It's pretty much universal, and a well known fact, that hard training aerobic men have natural crits that run between 40 and 43.
Where can I pick up the deed? I have a friend who trains 200 mi/wk with a hematocrit over 62%.
 

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bonkmiester said:
...well at least according to Ashenden in that Lindsay article, hematacrit is one of the least important values to key in on...

"reticulocyte count and OFF-score, then hemoglobin"....Ashenden

got any specific comments on that article or Ashenden?
Retics and off -score are used to determine if the dudes have been blood doping.

But...if you micro dose properly with human identical Dynepo then you can get a normal retic count and off-score....it isn't rocket science. How do you think Lance and Postal/Discovery blood doped for so long without being caught.

The guys need to publish their crits if they are clean.....it's a very simply solution that is not done. A high, or even highish crit, gives you far more performance enhancement than any PED.....a VERY talented clean rider can beat a talented rider as long as that talented rider does not increase his red cell count.
Going from the very typical 40-42 crit of a hard training aerobic athlete to even 49% gives you a significant power gain and much better repeatability.

As far as guys being certified with a natural crit of 50% ...that is complete BS of course. Sure they can get certified and some have .....many doctors would do it for the rider(for a price). They can be somewhat jacked all year and produce many samples with a crit of 50%.

Let the riders be tested before every single stage...like right before. All it takes is less than a 1/4 cc of blood and cheap(but very accurate) centrifuges. At least test the top 30 GC guys. Then at least you would know that they are not jacking their crits.....which is by far the most powerful performance enhancement.
They could still do HGH, IGF-1 and a couple other PEDS but these are simply recovery PEDS and don't actually directly increase ones sustainable power and repeatability.

Lets see their crits!!! Come on Evans...if you are not jacked then lets see your 41 crit!!!

Cheer
 

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Realgains said:
As far as guys being certified with a natural crit of 50% ...that is complete BS of course. Sure they can get certified and some have .....many doctors would do it for the rider(for a price).
You really don't have a clue do you? Look up the process for getting a hematocrit waiver.
 
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