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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I'm new to Tubulars - but have successfully glued a set of the above named tyres to my new wheels. I followed the instructions in Zinn's book - part of his instructions were to remove the latex layer from the tyre's base tape. I did this - but it took me several hours to do both tyres. My LBS said I was mad to even try - so, do others bother with this step?

Thanks,

Scallops
 

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remove the latex layer from the tyre's base tape
While this was standard advice back in the days, it was usually taken to mean that excess base tape glue should be removed by rubbbing it with a wrench handle, piece of dowel rod, or something similar. Tire manufacturers sometimes applied too much glue between the tire and the base tape, making it ooze up in patches through the fabric to the base tape surface. Removing that excess ooze was supposed to make sure that the tire-to-rim cement adhered to every square millimeter of the base tape fabric. That was the theory.

In practice, hardly anyone ever bothered when preparing wheels for road racing. But track riders were much more concerned about rolling a tire after a blow-out, so a lot of them did rub their base tapes before glueing the tire. In those days, many layers of shellac were used to glue track tires, so an hour spent rubbing the base tape was not much of an effort in relation to the entire procedure.
 

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On a new CX, I'll probably scrape for 3 or 4 minutes. Even if it's not needed, it makes me feel a little safer. I just use a metal ruler. In the same way, I'll probably apply a total of three thin coats of glue to the tire and rim (if it's a new rim)
 
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I inflate the tire partially and scuff the base tape with an 80 or 100 grit sandpaper. 2 or three minutes of light pressure.

All it takes.
 

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Scallops said:
Hello,

I'm new to Tubulars - but have successfully glued a set of the above named tyres to my new wheels. I followed the instructions in Zinn's book - part of his instructions were to remove the latex layer from the tyre's base tape. I did this - but it took me several hours to do both tyres. My LBS said I was mad to even try - so, do others bother with this step?

Thanks,

Scallops
Do Vittoria Corsas even have a latex layer anymore? I know that Tufos and the better Conti's don't...

Post a picture of what you did. I half-expect to see a tire with the base tape completely removed!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Dave_Stohler said:
Do Vittoria Corsas even have a latex layer anymore? I know that Tufos and the better Conti's don't...

Post a picture of what you did. I half-expect to see a tire with the base tape completely removed!
No - the cotton base tape is still there - I did show the LBS and they said it was fine to have removed the latex layer but it is just not necessary - can't post a piccy of what I did as the tyre is now glued to the rim.

I just won't bother next time.

Thanks for the help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
These tyres Do have latex - it SHOULD be removed!

I found this article in VeloNews (http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/7975.0.html) ... I guess I just went a little overboard in getting the latex all off... but the base layer is fine... please read below...


Dear Lennard,
I read with interest your detailed plan for gluing tubulars in your new Cycling Primer. One thing I left out in my process of gluing on a new tire is to scrape the latex on the base tape on my Vittoria Open Corsa - it did not look like it had anything to scrape. Anyway, since I have already put a couple layers of glue onto the base tape and mounted the tire, how can I go back and re-scrape and re-glue this tire? Or is it too late?
Andrew

Dear Andrew,
Interesting timing on this, as I just wrote an article on tubular gluing for the VeloNews issue No.8, particularly as it applies to gluing tires onto carbon rims. It is in the print magazine only, and I imagine subscribers should receive it in their mailboxes this week. I really recommend any of you who use tubulars to get a copy and read it, because I think there is a dangerous lack of understanding out there about how to safely glue tires, especially when it comes to a new rim material like carbon.

To answer your question, if that tire is glued down well without scraping the latex coating off of the base tape, then more power to you. (And yes, there ALWAYS is that coating on high-end Vittoria tubulars.) But you had better check it. Deflate the tire completely, or at least down to maybe 20psi, and try peeling it back from the rim. If strings of glue stretch up to the tire and it is hard to remove, you are okay. As professor Chip Howat of the University of Kansas (perhaps the premier tubular gluing expert in America) puts it, "You can inspect the joint by pushing the tire away from the rim slightly to observe the strings of glue. If they aren't there, the tire will be more likely to roll. The tire should be removed, more adhesive applied and installation repeated."

Now, if you did not scrape the base tape, chances are that the tire will peel away cleanly from the rim, i.e., no glue will stick to the tire, and all of it will stay on the rim. You will not see strings going up to the tire, because the glue will not be adhered to it at all. This is a dangerous situation. Some people like using 3M Fast Tack instead of tubular tire cement, and it may be able to dissolve some of that latex coating enough to stick to it. However, you don't want to use Fast Tack, because its solvents tend to soak through the base tape and dissolve the glue holding the tape onto the tire. Then, your tire will roll off of the base tape, which will stay stuck down to the rim, but you will be in the same world of hurt as if you just had glued the tire on poorly.

In the case of the tire pulling cleanly away, Howat's advice I quoted above of applying more adhesive will not be sufficient. You will need to pull the tire off completely and inflate it so it turns inside out, exposing the base tape for you to scrape. You scrape it with the side of a file or with the edge of a table knife (you know, one for pushing peas or spreading sandwiches -- not a sharp knife). The latex should ball up and feel tacky; there is no need to remove it completely, as it will now stick to the glue. Scrape the tape edge to edge - you want that tire stuck down completely, not just in the center.

If you want cement recommendations, use Continental clear glue on aluminum rims and Vittoria Mastik'One on carbon rims. There is a ton of information about gluing on Howat's Web site.

Oh, and if you peeled the tire back and saw good adhesion to the base tape (and thus won't be removing and re-gluing the tire), you may still be worried about creating a weak spot where you peeled the tire back. You could certainly spread a little glue under there, inflate the tire and leave it sit for 24 hours. That is the most secure way and should ease your mind. However, as Park Tool's Calvin Jones says, "The idea of using contact cement to hold a tire on is that it can repair itself. If it peels up momentarily but then sticks back down, it stays tacky and can re-adhere."
Lennard
 

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Something to think about.

All good information. But you need to keep in mind that some of these bombproof glueing procedures were written for riders who have spare wheels following them in a road race or waiting for them in the pit during a criterium.

If you're riding tubulars recreationally, you're going to have to be able to get them off if you flat miles from nowhere. The art is to glue them just enough so they don't roll in fast turns, but also for you to be able to pull them off quickly without tools unless you want to ride home on a flat - something tubulars are actually good at :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks wim - I understand your point - I will only be using these wheels for Track Pursuit ( Front only obviously) and Road Time Trials so I guess "bombproof" is the way to go - but you're quite right - after taking the pressure out of the tyres following the 24 hr "set period", I discovered that it is going to take some effort to rip the buggers off the rims!

Cheers,
Scallops
 
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