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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wada-to-test-for-black-market-products

The creation of this “non-approved” substances list stems from the early use of CERA, the third-generation version of the blood-boosting drug EPO, which came to prominence after Riccardo Riccò, Stefan Schumacher, Bernhard Kohl and Leonardo Piepoli tested positive for the substance at the 2008 Tour de France. “It came on the market in May or June 2008, but then we found out that it was on the black market as far back as 2005," Howman said.

WADA’s list also includes veterinary substances that have been used for medicinal purposes in humans in the past. "This is about looking to the future,” Howman explained. “There wasn't a loophole that has been exposed. This is more a hole without the loop."
Veterinary substances, that's a whole level of scary
 

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DMSO, Human Growth Hormone, these can both be bought at your local feed store to use on your horses. I am an Athletic Trainer and work with all levels of athletes and it is my job to know where and what can be used as performance enhancing drugs. It has been my experience that if you told an athlete that sniffing dog poo would help improve a 40 yard dash time, they would do it religiously.
I think it is absurd how many of you think any of our top athletes are clean. You cannot compete at the NFL, MLB, Olympic, etc... level without some kind of boost. Be it performance enhancing drugs, illicit drugs, prescribed drugs, or lotions/potions/witchcraft even. There are ways to get around the joke testing our athletes do at high levels of competition, and until we close the loopholes you will always have dirty sports not clean ones.
Look at football players from 20 years ago and then look at them today. How many 6'5" 385 lb lineman did they have in the 70's or 80's? Look at the increased speed and musculature of all of your specialty players. Everyone has had help to get to that level.
You may not agree with me but it happens, and I think it is dumb to try to stop it because the public expects a level of play now that is impossible without "help".
 

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St.Zu said:
DMSO, Human Growth Hormone, these can both be bought at your local feed store to use on your horses. I am an Athletic Trainer and work with all levels of athletes and it is my job to know where and what can be used as performance enhancing drugs. It has been my experience that if you told an athlete that sniffing dog poo would help improve a 40 yard dash time, they would do it religiously.
I think it is absurd how many of you think any of our top athletes are clean. You cannot compete at the NFL, MLB, Olympic, etc... level without some kind of boost. Be it performance enhancing drugs, illicit drugs, prescribed drugs, or lotions/potions/witchcraft even. There are ways to get around the joke testing our athletes do at high levels of competition, and until we close the loopholes you will always have dirty sports not clean ones.
Look at football players from 20 years ago and then look at them today. How many 6'5" 385 lb lineman did they have in the 70's or 80's? Look at the increased speed and musculature of all of your specialty players. Everyone has had help to get to that level.
You may not agree with me but it happens, and I think it is dumb to try to stop it because the public expects a level of play now that is impossible without "help".
For what it's worth...I totally agree with you :thumbsup:

Many people sit around with their heads stuck in the sand concerning how easy it is to get a hold of PED's that really work and how many people really use them. It's not just the pro's, but your local CAT 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 racers that are also using them...as well as your local gym rat that wants an extra 1/2" on his bicep to impress the ladies.

The NFL is a joke...though fun to watch. There are absolutely ZERO 6'1" 250 pound individuals that run 4.4 40's and can push around the kind of weight they can that are clean. The scrub LB in the NFL is bigger than the offensive linemen of 30 years ago, but way stronger and faster.

You can take any sport where money, fame or just competition is involved and you will find guys cheating to get an advantage, and it's generally a much larger percentage than people are willing to admit.

Yet...people still feel the peloton (and other sports) is cleaning it's self up with all the drug testing. The reality is the cyclists have found better ways of not turning a positive test instead of reduced the PED's they are taking.

In the end...I've always stated that on the professional level, people want to see amazing performances, not something they can see at their local stage race or minor league games. They want to see performances so far beyond that the typical individual can do it amazes them....which doesn't happen without PED's and pushing the human body to the limit.

Sad but true :(
 

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St.Zu said:
DMSO, Human Growth Hormone, these can both be bought at your local feed store to use on your horses. I am an Athletic Trainer and work with all levels of athletes and it is my job to know where and what can be used as performance enhancing drugs. It has been my experience that if you told an athlete that sniffing dog poo would help improve a 40 yard dash time, they would do it religiously.
I think it is absurd how many of you think any of our top athletes are clean. You cannot compete at the NFL, MLB, Olympic, etc... level without some kind of boost. Be it performance enhancing drugs, illicit drugs, prescribed drugs, or lotions/potions/witchcraft even. There are ways to get around the joke testing our athletes do at high levels of competition, and until we close the loopholes you will always have dirty sports not clean ones.
Look at football players from 20 years ago and then look at them today. How many 6'5" 385 lb lineman did they have in the 70's or 80's? Look at the increased speed and musculature of all of your specialty players. Everyone has had help to get to that level.
You may not agree with me but it happens, and I think it is dumb to try to stop it because the public expects a level of play now that is impossible without "help".
Well that sucks and I disagree otherwise "Running Man" will be a reality. For me, cheating/doping takes the sport out of the sport. Dopers suck. All of them.
 

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woodys737 said:
Well that sucks and I disagree otherwise "Running Man" will be a reality. For me, cheating/doping takes the sport out of the sport. Dopers suck. All of them.
Look at it this way Woody, if doping was legal and everyone did it, would it be cheating? because if you look at cycling, the NFL basically all of them are on the same level playing field, because all of them do something that gives them that extra edge. Don't get me wrong, I hate it, but through my job I have seen players as young as the 7th grade taking performance enhancing drugs. I do not turn a blind eye to it, I turn those fools in. However at the pro level I think it is just part of the game and most pros are consenting adults and are old enough to make these choices. We as fans pay great sums of money to see them do great things. If you want to see somewhat clean sports, support your local high school programs. But be warned we dont catch all of them either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
orange_julius said:
... and Johan Museeuw and his vet Jose Landuyt ...
Wasps and Stingers!
 

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St.Zu said:
Look at it this way Woody, if doping was legal and everyone did it, would it be cheating? because if you look at cycling, the NFL basically all of them are on the same level playing field, because all of them do something that gives them that extra edge. Don't get me wrong, I hate it, but through my job I have seen players as young as the 7th grade taking performance enhancing drugs. I do not turn a blind eye to it, I turn those fools in. However at the pro level I think it is just part of the game and most pros are consenting adults and are old enough to make these choices. We as fans pay great sums of money to see them do great things. If you want to see somewhat clean sports, support your local high school programs. But be warned we dont catch all of them either.
No. But if legalized can you not see the harmful implications to the kids aspiring to be pros? Again, doping takes the sport out of sports.
 

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Wookiebiker said:
For what it's worth...I totally agree with you :thumbsup:

Many people sit around with their heads stuck in the sand concerning how easy it is to get a hold of PED's that really work and how many people really use them. It's not just the pro's, but your local CAT 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 racers that are also using them...as well as your local gym rat that wants an extra 1/2" on his bicep to impress the ladies.

The NFL is a joke...though fun to watch. There are absolutely ZERO 6'1" 250 pound individuals that run 4.4 40's and can push around the kind of weight they can that are clean.

:(
Add GOLF (yes, golf of all things) to the list of PED users....
 

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Hell, lots of people take ketamine for recreational drug use, and that's a veterinary tranquilizer...

St.Zu said:
.. Be it.. lotions/potions/witchcraft even...
Now there's an avenue I hadn't considered... it'd be mighty hard to prove! :D
 

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St.Zu said:
DMSO, Human Growth Hormone, these can both be bought at your local feed store to use on your horses.
Wouldn't the HGH from the feed store actually be "Horse Groth Hormone?"

Seriously. Probably a good idea to be sure, lest some moron read this thread and inject himself with horse hormones.
 

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St.Zu doesn't appear to be saying that it is o.k. to use PED's, just that from his insider perspective as an athletic trainer that PED's are a reality and necessity for anyone who wants to actually compete at the highest levels of sport--and that it is such a part of the culture of sport these days that it is foolish to think we are going to stop it without drastic measures. In the end, the public isn't that concerned about it anyway or they would have gotten fed up with what is going on and quit watching.
 

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Gatorback said:
St.Zu doesn't appear to be saying that it is o.k. to use PED's, just that from his insider perspective as an athletic trainer that PED's are a reality and necessity for anyone who wants to actually compete at the highest levels of sport--and that it is such a part of the culture of sport these days that it is foolish to think we are going to stop it without drastic measures. In the end, the public isn't that concerned about it anyway or they would have gotten fed up with what is going on and quit watching.
^^^^THIS
 

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Plus from a game theory perspective the more successful the anti doping efforts are the more it will pay to dope. Ergo, it's never going to be clean.
 
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