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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've only done a few shorter time trials before, and never brought a bottle. Ignoring "dry mouth" and comfort,

Will fluid losses over an approximately 1-hour hillclimb TT mean that I need to drink to maintain performance?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Uh, well, why is it a "no brainer?" If it were a no-brainer, I wouldn't have asked, no-brain. :)

I know that I'm not going to bonk in an hour, so it's not about calories. There is a performance penalty to bringing it, so I guess I should have asked "about how long will a TT need to be before I need to hydrate during the time trial?"

Clearly, it's not necessary in a TT of 15-20 minutes. So what's the threshold? I know you can't answer THAT without more data, I'm just trying to point out that it's something worth THINKING about, which is why I'm asking here.

So there.
 

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The Carlster said:
Sorry - my 1st response was a bit 'strong'

Yes you want H20 (or energy drink) on a 1 hr TT

that is definitive of the term "no brainer"
Well, you better let these guys (and gals) know. Not one of them carried water.
And by the way if you asked most them (as I have), they would say whether you did a 40 km under 50 minutes or over 1:10, you shouldn't carry water.

USA Cycling Records
Road Time Trials
Elite Men
Individual 40 km
47:35.37 John Frey, Moriarty, NM, 9/2/90
Tandem 40 km
44:18.84 John Frey, Rod Bush, Moriarty, NM, 9/6/92

Elite Women
Individual 40 km
51:36.24 Mari Holden, Moriarty, NM, 9/3/95
Tandem 40 km
52:00.55 Carolyn Donnelly, Paula Higgens, Moriarty, NM 9/3/95

Masters Men
40 km
30+ 47:35.37 John Frey, Moriarty, NM, 9/2/90
35+ 47:48.69 Kent Bostick, Moriarty, NM, 9/2/90
40+ 48:25.48 Kent Bostick, Moriarty, NM, 9/1/96
50+ 50:35.33 Scott Hennessy, Moriarty, NM, 9/5/99
55+ 51:56.30 Scott Tucker, Moriarty, NM 8/31/97
60+ 52:42.65 Scott Tucker, Moriarty, NM 9/5/99

40 km Tandem
70+ 45:56.47 John Frey, Jim Warsa, Moriarty, NM, 9/1/96
90+ 47:52.48 Arnie Baker, Phillip Coates, Moriarty, NM 9/1/02 1
10+ 48:56.06 David Spangler, Vic Copeland, Moriarty, NM, 8/31/97

Masters Women
40 km
35+ 53:01.99 Vickie Marlatt, Moriarty, NM, 8/31/97
40+ 53:01.99 Vickie Marlatt, Moriarty, NM, 8/31/97
45+ 57:01.43 Julie Kaplan, Moriarty, NM, 9/6/98
50+ 59:01.12 Irene Asher, Moriarty, NM, 9/3/95

40 km Tandem
70+ 53:01.95 Carolyn Donnelly; Paula Higgins, Moriarty, NM 9/1/97
90+ 52:41.76 Elizabeth Benshin, Julie Kaplan, Moriarty, NM 9/1/02

Masters Mixed 40 km Tandem
70+ 47:17.84 Kent Bostick, Carol Ann Bostick, Moriarty, NM 9/2/96
90+ 48:47.77 Carol Ann Bostick, David Spangler, Moriarty, NM 9/3/95
110+ 51:59.27 Elaine Miller, Jim Miller Moriarty, NM 9/4/01
130+ 57:42.37 Eleanor Hamre, Bradley Snyder Moriarty, NM 8/31/03
 

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I'd say it depends on a number of things.
Yes if it's hot out.
Yes if it's in the middle of a stage race and or stacked with another stage on the same day
Yes if you have another high priority race the next day

Saying that - yes could very simply mean bringing a gel flask with a few ounces of water if it's not overly hot out.

No if it's cold or cold and rainy. I've done 40k TTs without water and had no problems. I also just did a 20 mile ITT in crazy heat and wind and probably would have passed out without a full bottle.

Sometimes just a splash at the half way point is enough to get you through. Other times you may end up draining a 16-20 oz bottle if it's hot enough.

I usually make it a day of call.
 

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Argentius said:
I've only done a few shorter time trials before, and never brought a bottle. Ignoring "dry mouth" and comfort,

Will fluid losses over an approximately 1-hour hillclimb TT mean that I need to drink to maintain performance?

I would, for a couple of reasons:

1. You never know, stuff happens it's always better to have a little water on you, even half of a bottle, if you think that little bit of weight is going to matter.

2. Lots of testing has shown that one bottle on the seattube is actually more aero than no bottles, so why take it off?
 

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FTF said:
2. Lots of testing has shown that one bottle on the seattube is actually more aero than no bottles, so why take it off?
Do you have sources for the "lots"? I know of only one test showing this (by John Cobb) and it was performed on a frame with standard diameter round tubes. I believe Cobb has backed away from this recommendation for modern aero TT frames.
 

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asgelle said:
Do you have sources for the "lots"? I know of only one test showing this (by John Cobb) and it was performed on a frame with standard diameter round tubes. I believe Cobb has backed away from this recommendation for modern aero TT frames.
Well, first, how many exactly is a lot, to you?

Well, cobb, and analytical cycling, a couple of other places, if I remember correctly.

As for the standard dia. tubes, I wonder if Argentius is planning on using a full on TT bike for a hillclimb TT, perhaps he could weigh in.
 

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Argentius said:
I've only done a few shorter time trials before, and never brought a bottle. Ignoring "dry mouth" and comfort,

Will fluid losses over an approximately 1-hour hillclimb TT mean that I need to drink to maintain performance?
Larch Mtn, I presume? If so, you get two trys at it a month apart. Why not do the 1st with bottle(s) and 2nd without then let us know how it was...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes, this is Larch Mountain.

It's a hillclimb TT, but nothing crazy steep like a Mt. Washington or Brasstown -- 2 miles of flat run-up followed by 14 miles gaining 3,500 feet or so; mostly a steady grade powerclimb.

I'll be using a normal roadbike. I've opted against clip-on aerobars, too, both for the weight and the ability to climb smoothly on the tops if I need it. I know the weight penalty of 250-500g for a bottle of water isn't all that much, but over 22km or so uphill it's something. Mostly it's the added distraction of drinking while climbing. I know that when I'm both going uphill and pulling from a bottle, I'm not going to be able to throw down plus of 300 watts.

The aero effects of the bottle aren't a concern to me, since excellent times for this course are just under an hour (meaning an average speed on the climbing section of 14 mph).
 

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water water everywhere

Take a smaller ammount of water than you normally would do on a non TT paced hour riode. I would take water. IF this is a steady climb as you have stated, yes, take the water and 1 gel bottle. The simple sugars will do good even at a 1 hour pace. Why not juice up with the gel just before the climb. Simple sugars will do the job in the time alloted and you will have a bit extra which even on a climb like you describe would be IMO, important.

For the aero folks, most of Cobbs studies in the wind tunnel for max aero benefits are at best non cionclussive on an individual basis. Every person will have their set up which works. However, standard round tubes do win the day and IMO, would be the deal on a climb. IF this was a pancake flat deal, who knows? The math says sure, the aero tubes MIGHT provide a benefit, but there are the issues of what you have trained on and what your body knows. Aero seat posts are in this instance overkill, IMO.
 

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I think I would be needing a drink over an hour uphill like that..

Argentius said:
Yes, this is Larch Mountain.

It's a hillclimb TT, but nothing crazy steep like a Mt. Washington or Brasstown -- 2 miles of flat run-up followed by 14 miles gaining 3,500 feet or so; mostly a steady grade powerclimb.

I'll be using a normal roadbike. I've opted against clip-on aerobars, too, both for the weight and the ability to climb smoothly on the tops if I need it. I know the weight penalty of 250-500g for a bottle of water isn't all that much, but over 22km or so uphill it's something. Mostly it's the added distraction of drinking while climbing. I know that when I'm both going uphill and pulling from a bottle, I'm not going to be able to throw down plus of 300 watts.

The aero effects of the bottle aren't a concern to me, since excellent times for this course are just under an hour (meaning an average speed on the climbing section of 14 mph).
 

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For an uphill TT like you described, I would take 1 bottle with about 10 oz of water. If it's going to take 1 hour, I would plan about 2 times in the first 35 minutes to consume a few onces.

The advice about drinking in a 40K if it is part of a stage race is good.
 

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No water

If you're properly hydrated you should be fine in TTs up to an hour. The gel flask is a good idea if you just need a little moisture cause of dry mouth.

Armstrong was dehydrated as much from his warm up as it was the race. Sitting on a trainer for an hour in 95 degree heat is a good way to drop a lot of water.
 
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