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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, maybe a question for the training section, but I thought I would throw it out here. Does anyone know what kind of wattage the pro cx racers are throwing out for an hr long cross race? How bout B class racers?
 

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crossbishop said:
Well, maybe a question for the training section, but I thought I would throw it out here. Does anyone know what kind of wattage the pro cx racers are throwing out for an hr long cross race? How bout B class racers?
Check Adam Myerson's coaching page, cycle-smart.com, to get an idea of the power requirements.

Here is the direct link:
http://www.cycle-smart.com/Articles/find.php?search=10
 

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crossbishop said:
Well, maybe a question for the training section, but I thought I would throw it out here. Does anyone know what kind of wattage the pro cx racers are throwing out for an hr long cross race? How bout B class racers?
I raced B last year and my threshold was about 300w and I was above threshold most of a CX race. I could hold 345w for 30 minutes last year but I was below that wattage while racing CX. But I was able to win a couple big B races. In the A's I was mid pack at best but would fade at the end.
 

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mattv2099 said:
I raced B last year and my threshold was about 300w and I was above threshold most of a CX race. I could hold 345w for 30 minutes last year but I was below that wattage while racing CX. But I was able to win a couple big B races. In the A's I was mid pack at best but would fade at the end.
Damn! How much do you weigh?
 

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mattv2099 said:
currently I'm 168.5 pounds and am 6'4". I was probably closer to 163-165 while racing 'cross last fall.
Wow, 4.6 watts/kg is pretty good. For 20 min, that is a solid cat 1.
 

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bikerb said:
Wow, 4.6 watts/kg is pretty good. For 20 min, that is a solid cat 1.
Note that these are estimates. The threshold wattage from my friends computrainer. and the 30 power using my time and the profile from an uphill time trial plugged into analytic cycling to give an estimate (completely dead after this effort but only a few minutes off of a 2 local pro's times on this climb). I was able to ride away from B fields at the start pretty easily last year...
 

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mattv2099 said:
Note that these are estimates. The threshold wattage from my friends computrainer. and the 30 power using my time and the profile from an uphill time trial plugged into analytic cycling to give an estimate (completely dead after this effort but only a few minutes off of a 2 local pro's times on this climb). I was able to ride away from B fields at the start pretty easily last year...
How did you get the power for the cross race?
 

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For those with access to a good library: There is a great article in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise volume 38 Number 1, January, 2006. It's called "Power Output during Stage Racing in Professional Road Cycling". They hooked T-mobile riders to Dura-Ace SRMs for the Tour of Germany. Results: mean power of 220 watts +-22 for road stages. Uphill TT 392+-60. You have to wonder if all the riders on the team were really going all-out in the TT, or whether the domestiques were using it as a quasi-rest stage.

Now, about cross: A previous study states means of 3 riders at: 374,316,and 309. I don't have their weights and it doesn't mention if they are elite. The cite for this is (please send it to me if you find a link) Hansen, E.A., K. Jensen, and K Klausen. "The workload demands in cyclo-cross. Cycle Coaching. 2:23-24. 1999

A different study tested 9 Elite male mountain bikers over a series of races: the mean was 246+-12.

I haven't read the articles on mtn. bikers or cross (can't find the cross article though I haven't looked real hard), so I can't tell how the mean is calculated. I assume that if you ride at 350 watts for 1 minute, then coast around a corner for 10 seconds your mean wattage is ((350*60)/70) or 300 watts.

The cite for the mtn. bike article is: Stapelfeldt, B., A.Schwirtz, Y.O. Schumacher, and M. Hillebrecht. "Workload demands in mountain bike racing". Int J. Sports Med. 25:294-300, 2004.
 

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Here's a graph of the SRM dataof a cross by Christian Heule in Hombrechtikon, you can see that the poweroutput varies wildly through the race when he corners and has to come up to speed again. First he peaks at 1,120 watts, but due to the scale of the graph that cannot be displayed.(1) After that, when positions are taken, he can "relax" a little (2) until the heavier 3rd 4th and 5th rounds. (3) shows when he attacks in the 4th round and (4) shows that nearing the end of the race the cold and wet get the better of him and can't put out so much power anymore. The average power output is 287 watts, enough to win the cross.

 

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bikerb said:
Here is an interesting chart that I was referencing.
That's a pretty cool chart. I'm in the unique position of deciding weather to blow my tax return on a pimped out B 'cross bike or use it to buy a power meter... I was leaning toward bike now I'm thinking power meter again... My goal is to become the fastest CXer I can within in the next few years... I know I need to train with power to accomplish this goal.

What would you suggest, bikerB? I do all my intervals with RPE and do lots of long rides... I don't use a HRM... And I want a PM real bad... And also want new bikes!!!
 

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rogger said:
Here's a graph of the SRM dataof a cross by Christian Heule in Hombrechtikon, you can see that the poweroutput varies wildly through the race when he corners and has to come up to speed again. First he peaks at 1,120 watts, but due to the scale of the graph that cannot be displayed.(1) After that, when positions are taken, he can "relax" a little (2) until the heavier 3rd 4th and 5th rounds. (3) shows when he attacks in the 4th round and (4) shows that nearing the end of the race the cold and wet get the better of him and can't put out so much power anymore. The average power output is 287 watts, enough to win the cross.
Thats' some amazing data. It really surprised me at first that the average power would be so low during a euro 'cross race. But it's clear that he made many short efforts at around 450 wats with many easier efforts. Almost looks like the profile of a criterium or something.
 

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mattv2099 said:
That's a pretty cool chart. I'm in the unique position of deciding weather to blow my tax return on a pimped out B 'cross bike or use it to buy a power meter... I was leaning toward bike now I'm thinking power meter again... My goal is to become the fastest CXer I can within in the next few years... I know I need to train with power to accomplish this goal.

What would you suggest, bikerB? I do all my intervals with RPE and do lots of long rides... I don't use a HRM... And I want a PM real bad... And also want new bikes!!!
The weight that you save by getting a 2 pound lighter B bike (that you probably rarely use in a race unless you flat or crash) is nothing compared to the increase in speed you can get from training properly with a power meter. The key word is properly here. Just having a power meter on your bike and acting cool because you are putting out 500 watts does not mean anything. I would check out the book Training And Racing With a Power Meter by Andrew Coggan. Even if you dont have a power meter yet, it will give you a feel for the ones out there, the pros and cons, and how to use it.

Would the power meter be used on a cross bike or would you use it on your road bike when you are training?
 

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bikerb said:
The weight that you save by getting a 2 pound lighter B bike (that you probably rarely use in a race unless you flat or crash) is nothing compared to the increase in speed you can get from training properly with a power meter. The key word is properly here. Just having a power meter on your bike and acting cool because you are putting out 500 watts does not mean anything. I would check out the book Training And Racing With a Power Meter by Andrew Coggan. Even if you dont have a power meter yet, it will give you a feel for the ones out there, the pros and cons, and how to use it.

Would the power meter be used on a cross bike or would you use it on your road bike when you are training?
That sounds reasonable. I am considering a Powertap SL laced to velocity deep v rim (would come with matching front wheel for 1300$ total) and rocking it on my road bike. My A 'cross bike is pretty nice as it is (18 pounds with kysrium tubulars, ultegra 10). I've got almost enough parts lying around to scrap together an acceptable 20-21 pound B bike. The road bike is a decent 16 pounds DA 10 bike.... HMMM. I'll buy that book and read it. That'll probably convince me to get the PM rather than pimp new bikes :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Cant see the data...

xcmntgeek said:
Check this out for data from both A and B cx races from here in Utah:
http://www.wattagetraining.com/cross/

SRM set up on bike, data from multiple races and analysis.

Cheers,
Justin

Justin,
I followed the link but was unable to view the data. It says the file is not compatible blah blah blah. Any way you can cut and paste an image in?
 
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