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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone else see the first episode? Pretty damn good start.

Love the cast too... Anthony Hopkins, Ed Harris, Jeffrey Wright, Evan Rachel Wood, Thandie Newton, etc.

But the key bit of brilliance (beyond the great production values, visuals, top-notch directing) is what looks like an intelligent discussion and unfolding of the implications of AI, what is and is not slavery, what constitutes a 'person', etc.

Even having hacky J.J. Abrams involved (he's one of the producers) doesn't seem like it'll automatically derail this. Hope the quality level holds up. If it does, this'll be a monster.


 

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Saw it last night. Thought it was awesome. Probably one of the best 1st episodes from HBO. REALLY looking forward to see the direction it goes.

I've never seen the original movie other than bits and pieces so I was somewhat familiar with the plot. My GF never heard of it so was completely in the dark. She loved it and said "We gotta watch the original".
 

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Saw it last night. Thought it was awesome. Probably one of the best 1st episodes from HBO. REALLY looking forward to see the direction it goes.

I've never seen the original movie other than bits and pieces so I was somewhat familiar with the plot. My GF never heard of it so was completely in the dark. She loved it and said "We gotta watch the original".
Skip the original, that would be my suggestion. At least until season 1 is over. It's best seen as camp, from our modern perspective. But I don't think you will spoil anything by watching it now, if you like.

We have only had HBO during GOT in the past few years, so I have not seen this. But the reviews are split on the first 4 episodes they gave to reviewers (no spoilers).

Some say it starts strong, and then starts to get muddy in 3 and 4.

Some say it starts shallow, but gets deeper in 3 and 4.

I say the risk is high of a weak finish. But weak is a relative term, I've read a lot of SF, and so I have seen some very good treatments of the issues being taken up by WW. I have seen MANY poor/shallow treatments. These usually involve a bit of soul searching at some point, then a lot of stuff blowing up at the end making the soul searching pretty moot.

That said, I can see several ways that modern sensibilities could make WW a great choice for re-booting. The obvious "victim to empowered survivor" would be one that does not show up in the orignial, and giving the robots a "voice" to tell their own side is another. In the original, they were silent killers, just machines malfunctioning (or were they?!?!?!?). Other possibilities, well, less obvious and less likely to make it in.

I hope it is good, I'll watch it eventually. So I guess I won't watch this thread. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
PS- The force behind the new Westworld is apparently Jonathan Nolan, brother to director Christopher Nolan (who helmed the three Dark Knight Batman films, Inception, and Interstellar).

J. Nolan's own track record is mixed-to-good overall (though he did co-write the muddled Interstellar, sadly), but one of his high points was the sci-fi Person of Interest TV show, which dealt with AI in its later seasons and was generally well-received.

So, he may just be able to pull this off. Good luck, Jon.
 

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i liked the first episode. actually, i really liked the first episode. some good misdirection at the start, and possibly within (man in black???). what creeped me out was the direction was pretty much what i would have done, especially the flies. not sure if it was just telegraphed a bit heavily or if i watched the final scene of psycho too much...

the acting is really good, especially the father at the end and the old, decomissioned android with whom anthony hopkins spoke. getting those robotic ticks and makeup down was excellent.

i really hope they can keep it up. shows like this have a tendancy to be great at the start, lull a few episodes in the middle, then end with a cliffhanger or back-door sequel. stranger things was okay, and i loved the final episode. then they commit to another "season" and it ruins the ending. at least with this show if the entire first season deals with westworld, we have other worlds to cruise through later, almost like paralel universes. trick wit hthat is so far they have only shown west world, and the higher-ups only seem to be interested in that world. to introduce futureworld action in the second season as taking place while we see this unfold would mean they dont pay attention to those other "areas" of the park.
 

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Based on the movie...same concept taken up a few notches. I loved the movie. Classic campy sci-fi but the show is fantastic.
 

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But the key bit of brilliance (beyond the great production values, visuals, top-notch directing) is what looks like an intelligent discussion and unfolding of the implications of AI, what is and is not slavery, what constitutes a 'person', etc.
I am curious about how they handle this. I have never seen any movie to accurately and comprehensively study on 'personhood,' sentience and consciousness to fit where the science of psychology understands it to this point. Usually it is a contrived simpleton's understanding of these ideas, and almost always a story about robot rebellion (eg the Matrix, the Borg, 2001, Her, I Robot, Ex Machina, Blade Runner).

These movies never seem to really look at consciousness, they just assume it is an epi-phenomenon that naturally arises once you have intelligence and 'self determination,' as has been assumed about human and animal consciousness in the past. But I think this assumption is extremely weak and flawed .. after, it is an assumption. And an assumption that I think would make an engaging topic for a movie/series. A search for/study of the ghost in the machine of ourselves and also, however unlikely, in so-called intelligent machines.
 

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K, really need to get through ep 5 to make a call on these things, given the slow development of such shows that has become common and expected. So feel free to ignore my speculation since that is all it is.

Saw the first two episodes on a free preview weekend. It was ok, but I'm not paying to see the rest. Fun enough to watch, but does not hold up to scrutiny.

I have serious doubts, given some heavy handed script writing (several groaner lines), and clues that lead me to believe it is going down a path that leads to... stuff. I won't say what stuff, but let just say I've seen the path to that stuff many times before. They need to avoid the Deus ex Machina (heh) in getting there, but I doubt they will with all the hints about secrets and real purpose and such.

It might work for a season, I doubt it will work beyond that. I hope for those of you who are enjoying it that it works out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
^ I'll continue to watch. I like what I've seen so far, two eps in.

And I'm a tough room when it comes to TV. :)
 

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^ I'll continue to watch. I like what I've seen so far, two eps in.

And I'm a tough room when it comes to TV. :)
I liked what I saw too. I do see potential. I hope the potential is realized, I would watch for sure. I just think it will be low odds for me.

Put it this way, there is a saying in SF about time travel stories. "If you can't do something Heinlein didn't do in By His Bootstraps (1941), don't write the story." That's my problem. Too many AI stories consumed, too easy to see where things can go. And writers who don't know the genre tend to reinvent the wheel.

This is why GOT was so good, for me, when so much fantasy has left me flat for decades. GRRM knew the genre, and subverted it very well indeed.
 

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Show has gotten better and better...looks like there will be a S2 in 2018. They've done a great job of leaving question marks around what it means to be human.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Show has gotten better and better...looks like there will be a S2 in 2018. They've done a great job of leaving question marks around what it means to be human.
Agreed, it has been a good season (finale is this Sunday).

The quality's held up pretty well, there was only one ep the whole season I didn't really like (the overhyped 'orgy' one... which was actually very un-sexy and silly).

Thandie Newton and Anthony Hopkins have really stolen the show, but there's been a bunch of very good performances, and unlike many TV shows, there's been a number of developments I didn't really see coming.

Refreshing. :thumbsup:
 

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It really is Hopkins at his best. Everyone is bringing an A game and plenty of plot twists throughout the season. I'm assuming in the finale we find out about Ford's next big game/plan/park/whatever it's called.
 

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so far The Wife and i were right on all the "twists" so far. this last episode, though, made me wonder if Arnold was never flesh-and-bone, but a split personality of Ford. he always referred to the personality as "Arnold," then made a facsimile and named it Bernard.


i hope they don't do that.

The Wife is pretty certain Delores is Wyatt. I am pretty certain Delos is named after Delores.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
so far The Wife and i were right on all the "twists" so far. this last episode, though, made me wonder if Arnold was never flesh-and-bone, but a split personality of Ford. he always referred to the personality as "Arnold," then made a facsimile and named it Bernard.


i hope they don't do that.

The Wife is pretty certain Delores is Wyatt. I am pretty certain Delos is named after Delores.
Mind. blown.


 

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Nothing seems a stretch at this point...there was certainly an Arnold in his own mind at least since he clearly made a point to not name Bernard after Arnold. I was also wondering if Arnold was just another host that Ford created to help him through the designs and it eventually became sentient and tried to free the other sentient hosts (Ford's words). Thus creating the need to create Arnold 2.0 (Bernard) and to kill Arnold. Bottom line...poor Bernard. :)

I hope we learn a lot more on Sunday but I'm afraid it's going to be just enough to leave us really hanging for 12-15 months. There isn't much good tru scifi around anymore but this show gives me faith.
 
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