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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just finished building a new Zipp 404 on a Tune 180 hub and I get a weird noise from the rear wheel when I am in the largest cog and the next 2 cogs down, regardless of which chainring I am in. I have tightened the Campy cassette to the rquired torque with a torque wrench and I have inspected the bearings on the BB, so it has to be something with the rear wheel. Plus, it doesn't make the noise when I use my 303 in lieu of the 404.

I don't get the noise when I am freewheeling. It only occurs under power and in those first 3 cogs. I am guessing that it has something to do with the spokes, and am wondering what. Are they possibly tightened too much, or not enough, or is it just one or two spokes that I should be looking at, and if so, what am I looking for?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Nope. The noise isn't a high ping noise, but more like a grinding noise, and I cannot figure it out. Is it possible that the cassette is worn and somehow the chain is grinding on it, or vice versa?
 

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naranjito
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Try lubing all the points where the spokes cross each other. They may be moving slightly, causing a 'pinging' sound. This is more likely to happen when in the largest sprockets because of the increased torque applied to the wheel compared with the smallest sprockets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I haven't swapped the cassette out yet, but that is next on the list. I'll probably do it tomorrow since I have to do some work on my TT bike too. This thing is driving me nuts.
 
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If I am remembering this right, it seems unlikely that it would be a worn cassette and you would only hear it in the larger cogs, as I think those are the least likely to wear out as they normally see less use.

But the chain could be possible I suppose. The derailleur alignment looks pretty good? I have had wheelsets that were just different enough from my others to cause the derailleur to just touch the spokes but only in the largest cog.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The derailleur alignment is fine. It definitely isn't touching the spokes in the largest cog because the noise also happens in the next two smaller cogs. If it were that bad out of alignment, I'd probably be missing some spokes by now, which I wouldn't be too happy about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Okay, I put on a new cassette and when I went to torque it down with the torque wrench, the wheel was pinging so much that I could barely even hear the ping from the torque wrench. So, I will assume that it is a spoke problem and not a cassette problem since the cassette wasn't even moving and didn't have a chain running through it. What can I do to the spokes to get rid of this noise? Do I need to back down the tension on the spokes?
 

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Try lubing the spokes at both ends. I have to do this on my Ksyriums every few hundred miles. One of these days I'm going to try using a drop of silicone lube so the hubs/spokes/rims don't get so oily dirty.
 

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Me to I have Ksyrium Es and when I'm climbing the front wheel is making some clicketing noise. It look like it from the spoke attachement system to the hub.

How to get rid of those freakin noise?

My wheel are brand new and I never beat them, I'm only 150 lbs.
 

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Okay....

ren said:
Me to I have Ksyrium Es and when I'm climbing the front wheel is making some clicketing noise. It look like it from the spoke attachement system to the hub.

How to get rid of those freakin noise?

My wheel are brand new and I never beat them, I'm only 150 lbs.
As I said in my previous post, lube the spokes at both ends. Clean them really well first, but never use any kind of degreaser on Mavics. Appearantly all Mavic's anodizing, paint, plating and decals are grease based, and you will ruin the finish if you have an open container of degreaser near them. If you talk to Mavic about it, they'll say gee, that's too bad you ruined you wheels by using an unapproved degreasing product.

Put a tiny drop of lube on the end at the hub. That should do it. If not, put a tiny drop of lube where the spoke goes into the nipple. If it still clicks and pops, put a tiny drop of lube on the threads of the nipples where they are threaded into the rim. nipple nipples
nipples
nipples, ahhh.....
 

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Ok, but before applying any lubricants I have to disassemble the entire wheels?

Applying lubricant just for fun will not do anything else than a total mess on my wheels.

Lubricant work only between 2 movings parts that are in contact.

Spokes are tensioned and not supose to move. So I dont think thats a good idea.
 

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I've seen this several times and solved it a couple different ways. Typically this issue is caused by black spokes (in my experience, though I've seen silver as well). Where the spokes cross (ie- in a 3x pattern) there is just enough friction from the slight deformation the wheel experiences under high load. It seems to be worse with black spokes because of the colored coating. I've never investigated, but under a microscope a plain old stainless steel spoke is probably much smoother than whatever the black coating is (paint?). This is why it only occurs when in the largest three rear cogs- this is where the most torque is achieved and the crossing spokes rub one another.

So there are three possible fixes, two of which I recommend:

1) Respoke with silver spokes if you have black spokes presently. This is a pain, but could make the difference. This is the first thing I would try.
2) Go old school and tie and solder the wheel. This is a service that could be difficult to come by, but a good mechanic should be able to get this done without too much trouble. QBP adds $31 to a wheel build to tie and solder, so in a shop I would expect around $50. This is the second best option and arguably provides some other benefits as well, most notably a stiffer wheel for only a slight weight penalty. If the spokes are still rubbing and making noise after respoking to silver, this is the way to go.
3) The last resort is to play with spoke tension. Higher tension makes a better wheel but also causes more of a problem with spoke rub. Lowering the spoke tension is likely to reduce spoke noise but at the cost of the stiffness and longevity of the wheel.

Depending on what spokes you have currently, I'd tie and solder it just for grins. You'll be the only guy out there with a Zipp wheel built like that, so you get a few cool points to boot.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I have the black spokes and haven't had the chance to use the wheel lately because I haven't been to a race that it wasn't pouring rain at (i.e., I don't race in the rain). Tomorrow will be another chance for me and I am going to try to lube the nipples and spoke holes in the hub to see if that works. If not, then I'll try other things. The last thing I want to do is to rebuild the wheel with silver spokes.

By the way, the spoke tension on this wheel is an 11 on the Park Tensionmeter on the drive side, which I think equates to close to 100 pounds with the Sapim CX-Ray spokes. The non-drive side comes in at zero on the tensionmeter. Both my 202 and 303 have the same tension readings and they aren't giving me the slightest problem, but they are on the old Tune Mag 190 hubs and not the new Mag 180. I'll give you guys an update if I race tomorrow.
 
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