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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I see bikes all over called cyclo cross, or cross this, or that cross with frames that do not seem like cyclo cross frames to me.

For those that are interested in CX, what in your mind are the elements of a frame being a True Cyclo Cross frame? Which design features must be present to keep the frame from just being a hybrid or touring frame with shorter stays?

I have been involved in CX since the 1970s; so my ideas on the pure cx frame maybe too strick. Wondering what others think

thanks

Mike
 

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lung lacking loser
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ugh... consider the can of worms opened.

I think if you look at some of the recent discussions of disc brakes and tubeless tires and their application on a "cross" bike, you will see that the definition of what a "true" cross bike is has been a fairly contentious subject.

To keep it simple:

A "Race" bike for cross (one that is designed purely with racing cyclocross), will not have any features that are unneeded for racing. No rack or fender mounts, no bottle cage mounts (it's only 60min tops, hydrate beforehand), and in all likelihood, no disc brake mounts.

If you just want the jack of all trades master of none that many look for, I think it's pretty much fair game to add whatever you want.

Now, let the fun begin....
 

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Number 2 on the course.
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beaker said:
To keep it simple:

A "Race" bike for cross (one that is designed purely with racing cyclocross), will not have any features that are unneeded for racing. No rack or fender mounts, no bottle cage mounts (it's only 60min tops, hydrate beforehand), and in all likelihood, no disc brake mounts.
Nice summary.

I'm sure that Mike is well aware of the previous threads and suspect that this thread stems in part from the following:

bikesdirect said:
Based on requests and comments on forums:
1 - Ultegra level so parts are not too much to replace
2 - Bullet Proof wheels
3 - disc tabs on fork and frame
4 - eyelets and a rr rack braze on

based on my own ideas
Bi Oval DT for stiff responsive frame with S stays AND custom TT so that underside is totally flat for caring bike - Top of TT is a semi point with cables run alone top. This frame is comfortable and quick at the same time - and of course will not the durability of Ti. This is a true CX frame so no cables on DT like some brands do on 'cyclo cross'. {I understand that purists do not need or want eyelets or disc tabs -- but they only make the bike illegal to race if disc are mounted.}
(Emphasis added).

I still disagree with just about everything in that paragraph, FWIW (nothing).

At least a manufacturer is asking. :thumbsup:

Give the rampant appropriation of the term "cyclocross" I think that a true race frame is distinguished by what is not present -- bottle bosses, eyelets, disc tabs -- as you say.

If something could be added to prevent the use of bar-top levers. . .har, har.
 

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PeanutButterBreath said:
Thank you for your support.
Someone lobs a softball like that, you gotta swing...

I can understand the issues you've got with just calling anything that'll fit knobbies and drop-bars a cyclocross bike. I don't know if I completely agree, but then I haven't raced yet, so it's easy for me to be less invested in what cyclocross really is...
 

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eat live sleep cross
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bar top levers = not TRUE cyclocross frame

i'm ambiguious about the bottle cage bolt holes - easily enough covered with tape or wicked light soft alumium screws...

but "true cyclocross bike" is an antonym for "touring road bike"

but then who cares - cyclocross is about racing these things... it ain't the next fixie fad for the more practical urban hipsters... well it seems to be but it isn't in spirit...
 

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lung lacking loser
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gewilli said:
bar top levers = not TRUE cyclocross frame...
Would dieter runkle agree?:wink5:

gewilli said:
i'm ambiguious about the bottle cage bolt holes - easily enough covered with tape or wicked light soft alumium screws...
Despite my definition above, I would prefer to have bottle cage mounts on the frame. I'm not going to kid myself that I'll ever race at a level where having the colossal weight of rack mounts, water bottle bolts, or any of the like slow me down. At times like now where fitness is a little...er...less than ideal, the easier gearing of the cross bike helps limit the suffering on road rides. So gimme waterbottle mounts so I don't have to shadetree some mess onto the frame or wear a camelback (if I don't want to)!
 

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What's he point of this thread? Are we attempting to call out certain manufacturers that are putting rack mounts on their seat stays and dare to call said model a cyclo-cross bike? Are we in turn going to call out certain consumers that dare to purchase a "cyclo-cross" bike and not race it?
 

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Formosan Cyclocross
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I might take a loose definition... and maybe look at the wider chain/seat stays and fork length/clearance for fatter tires and mud. Drop bars... maybe canti bosses. Everything else can be rearranged for the purpose the rider intends to use the bike. Look at what people are riding in cyclocross racing and you'll see a true cyclocross bike.

My bike has discs on it now, but I can throw cantis on if I ever found myself facing a UCI sanctioned race. By some criteria above I don't have a true cross bike (disc tabs, bottle bosses, DT cables)... but a lot of people ride it for cyclocross racing to UCI spec and it was formerly the bike ridden by a sponsored racing team. The disc tabs didn't seem to make it any less a cyclocross bike when they were not being used. By some of the criteria above there are very few "True" cyclocross bikes.
 

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I think the whole "cables run on top tube" thing is one of the key things, however I've only had one cross bike that has done that...my Alan Ultral Cross, my Kona Major Jake, Redline Conquest Pro, and Cannondale Cross all has the derailleur cables being run on the downtube. As far as top mount brake levers, who cares, if you're a mtber then you'll most likely go with the top mount brake levers, if you're a roadie then you'll probably use the hoods or drops. As for bottle bosses, I like using my cx bike as a winter and bad weather bike as well so the brake bosses help, but as GeWilli suggested I you can just tape over them which I do.
 

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Formosan Cyclocross
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I agree with gewilli

I don't think there is such a need for a rigid cyclocross frame orthodoxy. Any frame you could race in a sanctioned cyclocross race that wouldn't have any hinderances, like narrow stays would fit the bill. The earliest cyclocross racers would have been laughed at for what they brought to the races by today's standards.

Now... some of the bikes that are disc only and don't have canti bosses might be a bit iffy as they'd be disqualified from all the races that use UCI rules. Granted there are some cyclocross races that don't follow UCI rules, but as an international standard... UCI is the widest reaching body.
 

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Number 2 on the course.
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Dajianshan said:
By some of the criteria above there are very few "True" cyclocross bikes.
This is very true. My Soma Double Cross, for example, has bottle cage mounts, fender mounts and rack mounts on the frame and fork. The other bike in the house is a Surly CrossCheck which is similarly configured. Last year I sold off a Cannondale CX frameset that had most of those features to a guy looking for a good commuter.

In fact, there are few affordable race frames. CX is too small a niche to support them I suspect, and most lower cost frames only ever go into production because manufacturers can sell them to non-racers for their non racing purposes.

Despite the near 90% of votes in the "do you race poll?" answering in some form of "yes", I wouldn't be surprised if CX bikes sold were even more overwhelmingly bought by people with no intention of racing.

Its no mystery why things should be so. Neither does it have any bearing on the definition of "cyclocross" or "true cyclocross frame".

Bar-top levers are lame though.
 

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would

beaker said:
Would dieter runkle agree?:wink5:
!
Katie Compton?

I like having bottle mounts,during race season it adds how much weight?(for the screws)
post race season,you can commute

top mounts are great in traffic
 
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