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bigpinkt said:
Just a fever?
I think he's just sick. Although people are saying he's been sick for a while which calls into question how he pulled off his outstanding ride in the mountains the other day. At least some rumours that like Astorloa he has fallen foul of the biopassport, but I think that is unlikely since he started the stage. Time with tell, I have little doubt if that is the case Astana will have to fire him to show they are "serious" about doping.
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
No, but saying a rider is sick and pulling him from the race and then it come out it was doping not illness is a somewhat regular occurrance, even with Astorloa in this Giro.
And Floyd in the post tour crits
And Gonchar before the Giro
And the entire PDM squad

There certainly are rumors flying that ONE of the Astana guys has passport issues.
 

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bigpinkt said:
And Floyd in the post tour crits
And Gonchar before the Giro
And the entire PDM squad

There certainly are rumors flying that ONE of the Astana guys has passport issues.
There's only one way to be sure, folks. Ban 'em all, let Bruyneel sort'em out.
Behind every grain of truth, there's a mountain of rumor.
 

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bigpinkt said:
And Floyd in the post tour crits
And Gonchar before the Giro
And the entire PDM squad

There certainly are rumors flying that ONE of the Astana guys has passport issues.
My mind is telling me there probably aren't more than a few thousand counterexamples of guys not getting popped after leaving races because they're sick, but really, I have to stop with this insistence on evidence over rumor.
 

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harlond said:
My mind is telling me there probably aren't more than a few thousand counterexamples of guys not getting popped after leaving races because they're sick, but really, I have to stop with this insistence on evidence over rumor.
Certainly. I think it is "believable" in this instance because Kloden appeared anything but sick, it is Kloden and he is on Astana with Bruyneel. There are actually details of the rumour that could potentially be confirmed with video, and I know there are shots of him retiring since they briefly showed them.

I don't believe it, and think in this instance it is pure made-up speculation, but stranger things have ended up true.
 

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What I found most puzzling is that Bruyneel is claiming a victory in the Giro by a supposedly under prepared rider and team is proof that they are doing things the right way and deserve to be included in le Tour. It leads me to exactly the opposite conclusion.
 

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terzo rene said:
What I found most puzzling is that Bruyneel is claiming a victory in the Giro by a supposedly under prepared rider and team is proof that they are doing things the right way and deserve to be included in le Tour. It leads me to exactly the opposite conclusion.
I don't know. It was nice not to see them placing 3 or 4 riders in the top 10 of the final time trial or having half the team still there when there were only 10 guys left at the front on a mountain stage. Sure any one rider might be up to something, and in the new environment the sensible risk/rewards scenario would be to only dope your best rider(s) who can give you a big return, I thought this year's Giro like the rest of the season continued to indicate a cleaner peloton.

The biggest indicator is the simple lack of fire-power from the domestiques and people are claiming the power numbers are down considerably on the mountain climbs and TTs. Seems like the days of the magical 7 watts/kg needed to win a GT are over.
 

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terzo rene said:
What I found most puzzling is that Bruyneel is claiming a victory in the Giro by a supposedly under prepared rider and team is proof that they are doing things the right way and deserve to be included in le Tour. It leads me to exactly the opposite conclusion.
And if you reject Astana's self-serving claim that Contador was underprepared, where do you come out? We know Contador is an excellent talent, Astana is a strong team, and JB is a tactically proficient DS. We also know that neither Contador nor Astana dominated the race, and that both showed real signs of weakness at times, pretty much just like everybody else.

I'm not suggesting that Astana is clean, because I don't suggest that about anybody, but it does seem to me that EVERYTHING JB and his teams do is taken as evidence of doping, and that doesn't make much sense to me. In this case, I don't understand why people are willing to accept the contention that Contador was underprepared as anything other than the PR stunt that athletes are always pulling to make themselves the underdog.
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
The biggest indicator is the simple lack of fire-power from the domestiques and people are claiming the power numbers are down considerably on the mountain climbs and TTs. Seems like the days of the magical 7 watts/kg needed to win a GT are over.
Part of the firepower that we have seen in the past has to do with how much payroll there was in pro cycling. With all the scandal it is likely that these teams are now recieving less money from sponsors (Highroad and Slipstream still don't have title sponsors). During the time of the Postal/T-Mobile rivalry we can speculate about what was going on outside of the rules but it is a fact that those were the two most expensive tour teams on the road. Doping rumors aside, they were the best racers available (Chechu, Heras, Azvedo were all leaders with their previous teams). Because of that I don't find it that surprising that they could arrive at the end of races with better numbers of riders in the group. For what they were paid, that was the expectation.
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
I don't know. It was nice not to see them placing 3 or 4 riders in the top 10 of the final time trial or having half the team still there when there were only 10 guys left at the front on a mountain stage. Sure any one rider might be up to something, and in the new environment the sensible risk/rewards scenario would be to only dope your best rider(s) who can give you a big return, I thought this year's Giro like the rest of the season continued to indicate a cleaner peloton.

The biggest indicator is the simple lack of fire-power from the domestiques and people are claiming the power numbers are down considerably on the mountain climbs and TTs. Seems like the days of the magical 7 watts/kg needed to win a GT are over.
Let's say everyone dopes. Ok fine.

But at least the doping is on a more even field I must agree and I guess this is what you mean. I totally agree with the - 'It is more fair right now'
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
Certainly. I think it is "believable" in this instance because Kloden appeared anything but sick, it is Kloden and he is on Astana with Bruyneel. There are actually details of the rumour that could potentially be confirmed with video, and I know there are shots of him retiring since they briefly showed them.

I don't believe it, and think in this instance it is pure made-up speculation, but stranger things have ended up true.
I hope he's just really sick and I think this is the case.

Great guy to watch racing for sure.
 
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