Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am wondering what is the best way to improve your form for crits? I ahve not really trained for crits before, I am fine on a road race.

Should I do intervals of 3min on and 30sec rest for 30min. Something to that order. I am not sure where to really begin.
 

·
Squirrel Hunter
Joined
·
3,806 Posts
Corners

Clark said:
I am wondering what is the best way to improve your form for crits?
Learn how to corner so you can carry your speed through corners. Then you are not sprinting back up to speed four times every lap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Its not the cornering I am concerned with. I am trying to improve my fitness for crits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,364 Posts
Clark said:
Its not the cornering I am concerned with. I am trying to improve my fitness for crits.
The best predictor of cycling performance for events lasting several minutes to many hours is power at lactate threshold. So if you want to improve performance, raise your functional threshold power. There have been many discussions here on how to do that.
 

·
Every little counts...
Joined
·
3,924 Posts
10 second sprints with 50 seconds off. Do them till you crack. Take 10 minutes off, and then do them until you crack again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
asgelle said:
The best predictor of cycling performance for events lasting several minutes to many hours is power at lactate threshold. So if you want to improve performance, raise your functional threshold power. There have been many discussions here on how to do that.
How would a person raise lacate threshold?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,095 Posts
Keeping up with Junior said:
Learn how to corner so you can carry your speed through corners. Then you are not sprinting back up to speed four times every lap.
Boy is trying to help you; you dust him off.
Crits very often do not go to the strongest but to the smartest and most skilled. The guys who know how to move around the pack and flow through the corners have a leg up, so to speak, on the stronger guys. The smart, skilled ones don't have to be as strong. You see it all the time. Once in a while a guy will be strong enough to ride away from the field. It is a rare -- did I say rare? -- and rare and wonderful thing, and if you could do it, you'd already be doing it. Fitness certainly counts, but knowing how to dole out your energy will serve you well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
804 Posts
Clark said:
How would a person raise lacate threshold?
Clark - what does your current training plan consist of?

Opus is a course where you need to put out a fair amount of sustainable power to stay on. Last night was windy so finding cover in the group is as important as being able to put out XXX watts. Find a soft spot and stay in it; recover on the downhill side and do everything in your power to stay in the group on the up hill portion. I wasn't there last night (my race was canceled anyway but that's a whole nother issue) but have ridden Opus enough to know last night would have been tough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,095 Posts
if you take a good line and power up out of corners rather than hit the all-too-familiar sprint out of every turn in the lower cats, you'll save yourself gobs of energy. maybe it's a training issue, but I'll bet that your skill level is a big part of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,348 Posts
Here's one workout I give my clients for both cyclocross and for crits. It hurts, really bad:

3 minutes at a 20K TT pace
At the end of the 3 minutes:
10 second sprint, recover for 30 seconds (just spin your legs) then another 10 second sprint. Do the 10 second sprint/30 seconds recovery 6 times. That is 1 set.

Repeat this set 4 times with 15 minutes of rest in between each set.
Including warm-up and cool-down, this workout takes around 2 hours to 2:15
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
635 Posts
get a friend or two or four, go to a parking lot, and practice passing eachother through corners, getting up to speed, etc.....dont go all out in the straights, but take the corners and exits seriously.....it really helped me....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
here you go

It sounds like you're looking for advice on how to train for crits and not really as much about technique. Obviously being able to generate big watts at LT is going to be a huge factor in your success or failure in any race. But the last time I checked raising power at LT is an incremental process that should be ongoing regardless of the type of racing you do. That being said, I'll give you a sample of what I do to get ready for a heavy dose of crit racing. Crit racing is all about recovery. Everyone will be able to hang with the first few excelerations but can you do it over and over and still have gas in the tank at the end? The best way to address these requirements is to mimick them in your training. For me, I've had great results by implementing descending intervals about 6 weeks in advance of serious crit racing. They're straight forward, but they will hurt you very badly the first couple of times you do them, almost to the point of losing your breakfast in most cases. I start out with a good 20 minute warmup that includes a couple of moderate efforts before I begin the intervals. The intervals effort/recovery ratio is 1 to 1...like I said they're hard but so are crits. The sessions look something like this...2 minutes all out followed by 2 minutes of rest, then 1.5 minutes all out followed by 1.5 minutes of rest, then 1 minute on and 1 minute off, ending with 30 seconds on and 30 seconds off with one more 30 second effort after that. I typically do 4-5 sets of these with 10 minutes rest between each set. The goal for the first several sessions is to simply get through them. Don't worry about you speed dropping by the time they are done because it's going to. But by the time you get to the fourth or fifth week you will be able to get through them and hold your speed from set to set. After you do this for five or six weeks your heart rate will drop like a stone between sets which is exactly what you'll need in a crit. I've seen my HR drop in the neighborhood of 60 beats in a minute when on top form. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,364 Posts
toofast4u said:
Obviously being able to generate big watts at LT is going to be a huge factor in your success or failure in any race.
toofast4u said:
Crit racing is all about recovery.
Power at LT and recovery are the same thing. They're just different ways of looking at aerobic fitness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
sort of

While I agree that power at LT and recovery are both indicators of aerobic capacity they require different types of training to maximize each one. I know several guys who are TT specialists who can do a sub 55 minute 40k TT which obviously indicates a strong aerobic base. But you put those guys in one of our P12 crits with speeds touching 35 mph over and over again and they are OTB pronto. Just because you have great aerobic capacity doesn't mean you will be successfull racing crits...they are a different beast entirely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
toofast4u said:
While I agree that power at LT and recovery are both indicators of aerobic capacity they require different types of training to maximize each one. I know several guys who are TT specialists who can do a sub 55 minute 40k TT which obviously indicates a strong aerobic base. But you put those guys in one of our P12 crits with speeds touching 35 mph over and over again and they are OTB pronto. Just because you have great aerobic capacity doesn't mean you will be successfull racing crits...they are a different beast entirely.
Absoluletely, I recently posted in another thread about a guy I know who turned a sub 51 40k beating two of the biggest monsters in the area and gets dropped in Cat 4 crits. I will freely admit that power at LT is the most critical measure of potential for high level riders. If you DONT have it you wont be successful at the highest levels, no matter how good your sprint is. But being able to ride a steady state TT will not make you a great crit rider or even a good road racer if you cant respond when someone drops the hammer.

I'm exactly the opposite. I'm a cat 3 who can barely squeeze in under an hour, but I can ride with guys beyond my fitness because I have lots of anaerobic power and I recover quickly. I get dropped if theres no chance for recovery but that happens alot less than you'd think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
PMC said:
Clark - what does your current training plan consist of?

Opus is a course where you need to put out a fair amount of sustainable power to stay on. Last night was windy so finding cover in the group is as important as being able to put out XXX watts. Find a soft spot and stay in it; recover on the downhill side and do everything in your power to stay in the group on the up hill portion. I wasn't there last night (my race was canceled anyway but that's a whole nother issue) but have ridden Opus enough to know last night would have been tough.
PMC Yeah I heard that the cops came last night. Yeah the wind was tough on the uphill I was in the middle of the pack and got dropped on 3 or 4 lap up hill and never mad it back. I kept pushing myself and passing people who falling off the main group. I problemly could have stay with the main group if I was aggesive enough but this was my first crit ever.

I current plan is just to get out and ride.
Monday Recovery 75% HR
Tuseday 1-1.5hr Nice fast ride HR at about 85%
Wed 45min heart rate at 95%
Thursday 1-1.5hr Nice fast ride at about 85%
Friday Off maybe recovery if have time.
Sat 1.5-2hr Group ride
Sun 1-1.5 at 80% hr

It looks like I need to add interval. I am doing the Durand road race this weekend and I am looking forward to that because I am better at long steady races..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,047 Posts
Clark said:
How would a person raise lacate threshold?
OPUS? There is no cornering at Opus... it is all one big circle. Position means almost nothing- as long as you are not out front. The only thing to mix it up are the points laps. And don't be fooled- most guys just sit in until there are points. The only real "issue" is the 40ft "hill" on the far side before the start/finish.

My recommendation for Opus is really simple: go to Crosby Farm (by the Mississippi near Sheperd Rd), and do a dozen hill repeats- on Thursday so you are rested by next Tuesday. One round is about the same timing as a lap of Opus- and you will have an easy time staying with the pack.

I miss the fun of Opus... so what did the police do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
They stopped the races because someone had called in that people were not following the rules. Blowing stop signs, going the wrong way on one way, blocking traffic and littering. Right OPUS is up in the air, they are meeting with the police chief here soon.
 

·
chamois creme addict
Joined
·
1,479 Posts
Racing is the best training

If you want to race criteriums well, you have to race a lot of them. Toofast4u and Spunout give some excellent workout examples, but that is only part of the puzzle.

Racing as many crits as you can is the best way to improve. The racing takes care of the training and you will gain valuable experience every race. If you live in a relatively dense area of population you should be able to find one or two mid-week evening crits. Race as many as you can.

First off, focus on finishing with the group. The best way to do this is ride up front. Aim to stay in the first 10-20 riders at all times, and especially during the first 15 minutes when the pace is usually the highest. Most crits will have a "lull" after 10-15 minutes and usually if you are able to survive to that point then you will be fine for remainder of the race. As you gain confidence and fitness, start trying to figure out what it takes for YOU to start getting results. If you can sprint well then you can play that tactic. If you do not sprint well relative to the competition, then you have to be more creative and crafty to get results in criteriums (this is me, personally). Attacking is your best friend. The most successful attacks happen right when the pace is going from hard to somewhat easier and a lot of it is timing. Often attacking after a mid-race prime sprint is a good move as the pace will have been hot before the prime. Also, counter-attacking as a break is reeled in is a good idea. Sometimes course features lend themselves to successful attacks and breakaways and in general the tighter and more technical the course, the more likely a break will succeed. Ditto if the crit has a climb. And of course for the non-sprinter there is the late "suicide" move inside the last 1 km. Finally remember that in general more than 50% of crits come down to sprint finishes, and that not every attack or break attempt is successful either (maybe 1 in 10) so results for any individual non-sprinter is going to happen in limited quantities, like 5-10% of the time.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top