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Willam D said:
can't decide between a tire that is lighter--nimble spider,or one that is more aero, zipp 404? for all around riding and some racing.
Except in extreme climbing situations, even a heavier aero wheel is going to be faster. At the same time, it won't mean much while riding in a pack, so unless you are doing time trials or plan on solo breaks, the aero advantage is not that meaningful. For the improved speed, you get a wheel that is less stable in cross winds. Your choice.
 

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Agree. .

Kerry Irons said:
For the improved speed, you get a wheel that is less stable in cross winds. Your choice.
I ditched some 303's for a low spoke count wheelset, as I live close to the ocean and it's usually VERY breezy. The 303's were often almost dangerous. So yea. .Unless you spend your time in packs doing 25-30 mph, "aero" wheels are a waste.
 

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KATZRKOL said:
So yea. .Unless you spend your time in packs doing 25-30 mph, "aero" wheels are a waste.
I didn't read anything like that into what Kerry wrote. As he said the aero benefits are there, they are small, and they don't come without a penalty in cross winds, but I wouldn't characterize that as a waste.
 

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Willam D said:
can't decide between a tire that is lighter--nimble spider,or one that is more aero, zipp 404? for all around riding and some racing.
You must have lots of money, but I think it would be a much better idea to have two sets of wheels if you are racing. A durable set for training, and one (or more) for racing. That way your expensive racing wheels will be "fresh", and your training wheels will be reliable.

If you want to go fast, aero beats weight everytime... unless it is a steep climb... but we are talking about small amounts in any case.
 

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In a perfect world...

Willam D said:
can't decide between a tire that is lighter--nimble spider,or one that is more aero, zipp 404? for all around riding and some racing.
...I'd have a set of each for racing only, and something a little more durable for everyday riding. But the world is not perfect, so I'd pick the 404's for racing (they're pretty light, even the clinchers) and still go with something more durable for everyday riding. Even in pack racing you may find yourself on the front or trying to bridge a gap - aero makes a big difference in such situations.

If the world is so imperfect that you can only buy one wheelset, there are plenty of options for more durable wheels that will be perfectly fine for occasional racing - especially if you're not doing that much racing. The ubiquitous Ksyriums and their market equivalents come to mind, as do a set of nice hand-builts.

EDIT--Well, I just read your other post apparently asking the same question but also stating you will be putting a Powertap on the wheel. You estimated a 400-500 gram difference between the Nimbles and the Zipps - I think it's not so high, more like 300 g or so. Even with a Powertap, I'd still rather race on a (relatively) light, aero wheel than a really light non-aero wheel unless I was doing a hill climb TT.
 

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I think it depends mostly on where you ride and what kind of riding you'll be doing. And I agree that two or three sets of wheels make more sense if you plan to do much racing. I rode only Cosmic Carbones for three years but now prefer light weight home built conventional wheels for most rides and save the Carbones for time trials. And now I'd be better off with a disk in the back and a tubular aero wheel in the front for time trials.
If you've got to do it all with just one set I'd vote for light conventional wheels with double butted spokes 3 cross.

Al
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
300 g is over 3/4 lbs....that seems like a lot relative to a 16lb bike. but, perhaps the aero dynamics are more important, as some--many--seem to say.

since i got such a good deal on the bike (i think):$3k for a c-dale 613 w/full carbon campi, krysirium, kwing etc...maybe i'll just get 2 sets of wheels.

the nimble spider wheels i am looking at are the opposite of deep, they are marketed as shallow, but the guy says they are also very aero??? they are super light.

and i thought mt bike decisions were getting perplexing.
 

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Humm. .

BugMan said:
Even in pack racing you may find yourself on the front or trying to bridge a gap - aero makes a big difference in such situations.
.
. .Explain this "big difference." For quick accelerations (ie. .Change in average speed) a very light wheel is actually better than a heavier aero one IMO. .However, this is all moot, as only in professional racing is this talk really applicable. It seems too many on these forums envision themselves on OLN in front of cheering crowd.
 

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KATZRKOL said:
. .However, this is all moot, as only in professional racing is this talk really applicable. It seems too many on these forums envision themselves on OLN in front of cheering crowd.
In our state Crit championships one year, the race was decided in a photo finish by less than the width of a tire. The difference between an aero and non-aero wheel would easily account for that difference. So explain to me why amateur racers should not take advantage of what is known to be faster equipment?
 

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KATZRKOL said:
. .Explain this "big difference." For quick accelerations (ie. .Change in average speed) a very light wheel is actually better than a heavier aero one IMO.
For bridging gaps caused by the 'slinky effect' within a group I agree, but if I'm trying to bridge to a breakaway with a 30-sec gap, then I'm spending far more time trying to be as aerodynamic as possible than I am on the quick acceleration that I needed to start the chase.

KATZRKOL said:
. .However, this is all moot, as only in professional racing is this talk really applicable. It seems too many on these forums envision themselves on OLN in front of cheering crowd.
In your humble opinion :D
 

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KATZRKOL said:
And so would luck, or a missed shift.
Yes but so far as I know, there is no way for me to control my oponent's luck or cause him to miss a shift. However, I do know what equipment I should use to make me as fast as possible over a given course. So, once again I ask, why should I ignore that information when I have it available?
 

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asgelle said:
Yes but so far as I know, there is no way for me to control my oponent's luck or cause him to miss a shift. However, I do know what equipment I should use to make me as fast as possible over a given course. So, once again I ask, why should I ignore that information when I have it available?
You don't have to, no matter what the gods....ok, katzrkol....say. You just have to be realistic and remember that any improvement is likely to be small or even unnoticeable. Racing is racing, and part of racing is and always has been doing whatever you can to cut another second or tenth of a second off the clock. Besides, even if there is very little improvement due to aero benefits, you may still reap benefits from the psychological pump you get from riding more aero wheels. The psych factor in human performance should never be ignored and can be muy huge.
 

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Willam D said:
can't decide between a tire that is lighter--nimble spider,or one that is more aero, zipp 404? for all around riding and some racing.
Oh goodie! The start of another religious argument!

I can't wait to see sparks fly!

M
 

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asgelle said:
Yes but so far as I know, there is no way for me to control my oponent's luck or cause him to miss a shift. However, I do know what equipment I should use to make me as fast as possible over a given course. So, once again I ask, why should I ignore that information when I have it available?
Voodoo dolls? Just don't sit on the pins.

Whether you're a pro or not, there's no reason not to have the best equipment you can afford, and to make the best judgement you can about what's best for you. True, the right ride won't put you in the winners circle of any race, but if it gets you to the finish line .02% faster, and the margin of victory is .01%, then maybe it's worth it.

I actually got into a related discussion about chasing the latest and greatest gear with another cyclist not too long ago. He was disgusted when he saw a guy who had to dismount and walk up one of the steeper hills around here- but only because he was riding a Cervelo. I said, "Big deal, so the guy only goes out on perfect Sunday mornings. At least he's not sitting in front of the tube. If he want's to buy and ride the best he can afford, what's wrong with that? Guys like that are keeping the LBS in business." And if he decides to sell it next year and get a newer model, maybe I'll be riding it up that hill. :)
 

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I have had a bunch of sets of wheels, some falling into the "light" and others into the "aero" category.

Shimano 105-level paired spoke wheelset: turned fast once up to speed... but took a long time to get there. ~1800 or 1900g I think.
Shimano DA paired spoke wheelset: turned very fast. Did not accelerate as fast as my Ksyrium SL SSC's but was damn close, had less drag and speed and just as bombproof. ~1650 something grams
Ksyrium SL SSC (2002): Great acceleration, drag was almost as bad as standard 32 spoke build wheels when at speed though. ~1500 grams I think.
American Classic 420's - 16/20 spoke count, bladed spokes, semi aero profile rim (34mm deep dish): wicked fast at speed, accelerated the best of any wheels I have ever had. ~1440 grams I think. I classified these wheels as "stupid light" though, rode them only in races.
HED Stinger 60 tubulars: ~1600 something grams. Ride very,very fast at speed, accelerate sufficiently from slow speed. assuming your speed stays over 19-20mph in a race, the acceleration from slow to fast really isn't an issue.

and just for giggles

Spinergy Spox - no idea on weight, very light rim. Turn slow as hell, the fiber spokes have tons of drag. Would be a good hillclimb wheel with a super light tire on it.

My bias? If money were no object, I'd have the Stingers, the 420's, the DA wheels and a set of regular DA/Open Pros for training.
 

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b987654 said:
But my question is what is an aero wheel? do you consider 30mm aero, 40? at what speed? or is it just aero cuz they call it that? I keep reading the majority of "aero" wheels aren't an aero advantage.
You need to look at the data and decide for yourself:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=550582#poststop

Unfortunately, Zipp has "updated" their website, and some of their best info is missing...
 
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