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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last weekend, I got the debernardi stripped down to the chrome. It looks great. Got most of the pieces transfered over from the donor bike except for the crank and bottom bracket.

Today, I got the crank and bottom bracket on installed, took it home, hoping to get it all together and rideable before it snows tomorrow. In my haste, I promptly snapped the bolt off on the nuovo record braze on front derailleur.

@#$%.

@#$%.

@#$%.

anybody either A: have a spare or B know how to extract a snapped bolt from inside a braze-on front derailleur?
 

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Fast No More.
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A.) I think a water bottle bolt will work.

B.) Bolt-out kit from Sears or the local hardware store.

Good Hunting.

EDIT: The word is "merda", BTW.
 

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easy outs

so let me get this straight. You were tightening the bolt and you snapped off the head, the threaded part is still in thre correct? They make tools called Easy Outs to get that out.
You will have to drill a hole in the remaining bolt though, that can be kind of touchy with a small bolt as you don't really want to drill off center into the housing too much.Maybe Sears calls them "Bolt Out's" I don't know. the professional term is "easy out" or extractor, though they are probably the same thing.
Another thing to check first is take a real good look at the remaining bolt. If it broke off and leaves a chip sticking out, I have been able to take a small chisel and small hammer and just tap the bolt on it's edge and if you are lucky you can sort of unscrew and you can do this until you can grab it with a pair of long nosed plyers. On a bike you don't want to go banging on it with a big hammer though.
The bolt almost for sure will not be tight because the part that gets tight, snapped off. The bolt should just be sitting in there no tighter than it was to screw it in by hand.

As far as drilling it out, if you are not completely comfortable doing this, I probably would recomend taking it to a shop familiar with the proceedure. It's no big deal for someone who has done it a lot and they actually shouldn't charge much more than an hours labor or so, maybe a little more depending on the case. Note, not all bike shops may be familiar with this proceedure, but any machine shop would be, they snap bolts off all the time and have to know how to remove them.
I used to be a marine mechanic and I can't tell you how many times I ran accross this problem. never got beat yet. in fairness though, most of the bolts I was working with were larger, but the proceedure is the same regardless.

buck-50 said:
Last weekend, I got the debernardi stripped down to the chrome. It looks great. Got most of the pieces transfered over from the donor bike except for the crank and bottom bracket.

Today, I got the crank and bottom bracket on installed, took it home, hoping to get it all together and rideable before it snows tomorrow. In my haste, I promptly snapped the bolt off on the nuovo record braze on front derailleur.

@#$%.

@#$%.

@#$%.

anybody either A: have a spare or B know how to extract a snapped bolt from inside a braze-on front derailleur?
 

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Devoid of all flim-flam
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Marrone.
 

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Another trick...

martinrjensen said:
Another thing to check first is take a real good look at the remaining bolt. If it broke off and leaves a chip sticking out, I have been able to take a small chisel and small hammer and just tap the bolt on it's edge and if you are lucky you can sort of unscrew and you can do this until you can grab it with a pair of long nosed plyers.QUOTE]

that I have used... if there is indeed enough of the remaining bolt sticking out, is to file a grove into it big enough to place the tip of a screwdriver into. Then it is just a matter of unscrewing the broken bolt. :thumbsup: This is provided the bolt was not overly tightened down.
 

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That's not too bad. I thought you were gonna say you found out it was cracked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Welllll...

Merda.

Marrone.

Vafancuollo.

Drilling it out with a broken bolt remover didn't work. Really didn't work. Should have listened to the advice "take it to someone who knows what they're doing"...

On the plus side, I now have a thoroughly trashed Nuovo Record Braze-on front derailleur for spare parts.

I are dum.
 

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you might not be F*&ked yet

Not necessarily. the small size of the bolt does make options difficult though. When bolt hols are stripped out they make kits to drill the hole oversized and insert a threaded insert so the threads are the same size as the original. again, this is a common machine shop practice and I would say if it was a larger bolt, then it wuld definately be no problem. Now is the time to take it to a lbs and maybe a machine shop. Call a couple up and explain your problem. see if they want to take a look at it. the threaded inserts are called "Helicoils". that the buzz word to use both to your LBS and the machine shop
buck-50 said:
Welllll...

Merda.

Marrone.

Vafancuollo.

Drilling it out with a broken bolt remover didn't work. Really didn't work. Should have listened to the advice "take it to someone who knows what they're doing"...

On the plus side, I now have a thoroughly trashed Nuovo Record Braze-on front derailleur for spare parts.

I are dum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
martinrjensen said:
Not necessarily. the small size of the bolt does make options difficult though. When bolt hols are stripped out they make kits to drill the hole oversized and insert a threaded insert so the threads are the same size as the original. again, this is a common machine shop practice and I would say if it was a larger bolt, then it wuld definately be no problem. Now is the time to take it to a lbs and maybe a machine shop. Call a couple up and explain your problem. see if they want to take a look at it. the threaded inserts are called "Helicoils". that the buzz word to use both to your LBS and the machine shop
Oh no, I'm pretty well @#$%ed on this one.

Lets just say I got a little over zealous with the drill and leave it at that. It would at this point cost more to fix than to buy a new one...
 

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man you shoulda gotten a hold of me....I could have gotten it out.....a 4 or 5 mm bolt is HUGE
 

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can it be drilled a bit oversized and re-tapped for a different bolt?
 

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photo time

Well how about a picture then? You look back and laugh at this in a few years, well maybe 10. I'd really like to take a look anyway. As I'm guessing you have found out, the critical part of drilling is the start of the hole. It has to be centered and the only time you can move the center around is when you start. Usually I try grind the broken part flat (if possible so I can start in the center. That's not always possible even with larger bolts. So you gave it your best shot and now you know that much more about theprocess. As long as you didn't trash the frame (I sure hope it's OK) , give yourself a pat on the back and try to glean every positive aspect about this ordeal out of this possible. There are a lot.
buck-50 said:
Oh no, I'm pretty well @#$%ed on this one.

Lets just say I got a little over zealous with the drill and leave it at that. It would at this point cost more to fix than to buy a new one...
 

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martinrjensen said:
Well how about a picture then? You look back and laugh at this in a few years, well maybe 10. I'd really like to take a look anyway. As I'm guessing you have found out, the critical part of drilling is the start of the hole. It has to be centered and the only time you can move the center around is when you start. Usually I try grind the broken part flat (if possible so I can start in the center. That's not always possible even with larger bolts. So you gave it your best shot and now you know that much more about theprocess. As long as you didn't trash the frame (I sure hope it's OK) , give yourself a pat on the back and try to glean every positive aspect about this ordeal out of this possible. There are a lot.
What I do is to take a ball bur and mark dead center of the broken bolt with a divot so the drill bit will not skate ( I use a high speed air hand piece to mark the center, 300,000 rpm, NO torque to speak of)

It sounds to me like $1.50 broke the bolt on the derailleur itself, but I could be wrong....and he seems to be off in a corner sulking now...fact is, even it was the frame, i could easily be low temp brazed, re-drilled and re-tapped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Touch0Gray said:
What I do is to take a ball bur and mark dead center of the broken bolt with a divot so the drill bit will not skate ( I use a high speed air hand piece to mark the center, 300,000 rpm, NO torque to speak of)

It sounds to me like $1.50 broke the bolt on the derailleur itself, but I could be wrong....and he seems to be off in a corner sulking now...fact is, even it was the frame, i could easily be low temp brazed, re-drilled and re-tapped.
I'll post a picture soon.

Basically, what happened was this- the braze-on derailleur was missing the piece that goes on the outside/front of the braze on between the braze-on and the head of the bolt, but i didn't know that as I've never used a braze-on FD before.

Sooooooo, I cranked it down but couldn't get it quite tight enough, so I kept cranking the bolt further into the body of the derailleur (much further, apparently, than I should have) and snapped the bolt off inside the FD.

THen, I went out and got myself a couple drill extractors from the hardware store, figuring "how hard could it be?"

Very hard, as it turns out.

I proceeded to try and drill my pilot hole, which went off center and crooked... but, not content to leave well enough alone, I thought I'd try and use the extractor anyway, which took "off center and crooked" and amplified it when I forgot to turn the drill from "fast" to "slow", and actually managed to dig out the other side of the derailleur body, leaving a really big off-center, crooked hole in it's wake.

Frame is fine and one of my co-workers has a spare I can borrow until I find a proper replacement, and I've learned yet again that patience is a virtue and enthusiasm+the internet is no substitute for experience+actual knowledge. :D :blush2: :mad2:

It may be that my purpose in life is to serve as an example to others...
 

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So you were missing the curved washer right? I am in the middle of a braze-on snag myself, I had gotten the wrong mount plate for my new frame so the boys at the Trek-store are ordering me the right one, Token (campy) bb and Veloce 10 speed double crankset will be here tomorrow HOPEFULLY). I am waiting until I have the right mount plate to order the braze-on derailleur......BUT maybe by next week it will be a complete build.

Maybe one of these days the weather will cooperate and we can get together for a ride and a beer.

FWIW, next time you need to drill out the center of a 5 mm bolt, gimme a shout, I have a bit more "delicate" tools. as an aside, I would not use a power tool to turn an easy out, a socket, a small open end or crescent is the ticket.

I have to pick my wife up at the airport on Wednesday night, but I pretty much have a free pass to do what-ever I please for a good long time now since she is spending a week in New Orleans without me.....hehehehehehhe
 

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buck-50 said:
I'll post a picture soon.

Basically, what happened was this- the braze-on derailleur was missing the piece that goes on the outside/front of the braze on between the braze-on and the head of the bolt, but i didn't know that as I've never used a braze-on FD before.

Sooooooo, I cranked it down but couldn't get it quite tight enough, so I kept cranking the bolt further into the body of the derailleur (much further, apparently, than I should have) and snapped the bolt off inside the FD.

THen, I went out and got myself a couple drill extractors from the hardware store, figuring "how hard could it be?"

Very hard, as it turns out.

I proceeded to try and drill my pilot hole, which went off center and crooked... but, not content to leave well enough alone, I thought I'd try and use the extractor anyway, which took "off center and crooked" and amplified it when I forgot to turn the drill from "fast" to "slow", and actually managed to dig out the other side of the derailleur body, leaving a really big off-center, crooked hole in it's wake.

Frame is fine and one of my co-workers has a spare I can borrow until I find a proper replacement, and I've learned yet again that patience is a virtue and enthusiasm+the internet is no substitute for experience+actual knowledge. :D :blush2: :mad2:

It may be that my purpose in life is to serve as an example to others...
Um, even on slow a drill would be too fast. You use a hand wrench to turn the easy out. THat allows it to grab in the hole and turn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
barry1021 said:
Um, even on slow a drill would be too fast. You use a hand wrench to turn the easy out. THat allows it to grab in the hole and turn.
Well, yeah, I know that NOW...:D
 
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