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· Former Roadbikereview Editor
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does he have bad form? Is he not motivated?

I've been checking on him from time to time and his performance so far has been miserable.

Today, he finished 18 minutes back and now he is 1 hour back on the GC.

Is he just training and saving himself for the TDF? Or is something wrong?

It's a little late in the season to be finishing 10 minutes back on every hard stage. Also, Basso needs him now.

It's not Riis' style to just get zero productivity from a domestique/helper prior to the big TDF race.

francois
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/giro06/?id=results/giro0610
 

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francois said:
Does he have bad form? Is he not motivated?

I've been checking on him from time to time and his performance so far has been miserable.

Today, he finished 18 minutes back and now he is 1 hour back on the GC.

Is he just training and saving himself for the TDF? Or is something wrong?

It's a little late in the season to be finishing 10 minutes back on every hard stage. Also, Basso needs him now.

It's not Riis' style to just get zero productivity from a domestique/helper prior to the big TDF race.

francois
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/giro06/?id=results/giro0610

Saving himself self for the hard work yet to come? Odd, maybe he's fighting a bug and is just doing what he needs to be able to finish in under the limit.....Sat will tell.......he hasn't exactly gotten zero productivity out of Julich, he was in the front today helping limit the break and he did his share in the TTT...
 

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francois said:
It's not Riis' style to just get zero productivity from a domestique/helper prior to the big TDF race.
Is this true though? I haven't been following the stages closely enough to tell, but is Julich falling back early without contributing to the team or is he doing his job and then falling back saving his energy for later? Also could he be deliberately losing time to make it easier to get away in later stages either to go for stage wins or to position himself up the road to support Basso later in the stage?
 

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Bobby is all about Ivan

since coverage is limited he may be doing rouler work and thus have little left for the final climb. He could be doing loads of 'flats protection' with Jens.
All we have to judge is how Ivan is doing. Sastre is his top climbing honch who was with him until the final move. Judge CSC's individuals by how the Cap'n is doing. Basso is in 1st so they must be doing fine. If Ivan gets isolated numerous times we can start screaming.
 

· Former Roadbikereview Editor
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
atpjunkie said:
since coverage is limited he may be doing rouler work and thus have little left for the final climb. He could be doing loads of 'flats protection' with Jens.
All we have to judge is how Ivan is doing. Sastre is his top climbing honch who was with him until the final move. Judge CSC's individuals by how the Cap'n is doing. Basso is in 1st so they must be doing fine. If Ivan gets isolated numerous times we can start screaming.
I really hope we see some of Julich in this race. And see him where it counts... at the end of the race.

So far, Sastre and Jens Voight have come up big for Basso. I'd like like to see something good from a key player like Julich too.

francois
 

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I've read that Savoldelli's problems Sunday might be attributable to allergies. I understand that Julich has some allergy problems, too, so maybe that's the issue.
 

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Francois for once

I don't like your attitude. When it counts...you mean when it is televised.Its what always pissed me off about the LA Top Dom Cliff Bar award. It always went to the climbing domestique who sat as protected as 'the boss'. Nevermind the Ekis, Pavels and George's
who bled out their eyeballs for the first 4-5 hours without the coverage. The roulers are the true heroes which is why my respect for George has gotten only deeper. Guy would control tempo for hours and still be able to help on the climbs.
So my guess is he's helping when it counts, when he's called for, it just isn't at Marquee times.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
atpjunkie said:
I don't like your attitude. When it counts...you mean when it is televised.Its what always pissed me off about the LA Top Dom Cliff Bar award. It always went to the climbing domestique who sat as protected as 'the boss'. Nevermind the Ekis, Pavels and George's
who bled out their eyeballs for the first 4-5 hours without the coverage. The roulers are the true heroes which is why my respect for George has gotten only deeper. Guy would control tempo for hours and still be able to help on the climbs.
So my guess is he's helping when it counts, when he's called for, it just isn't at Marquee times.
Point taken. 'when it counts' seems like the wrong term. It all counts, I concur.

I'm in the dark, I know because Bobby is invisible right now. But I'd like to see more of him as one of the final lieutenants alongside Basso. My understanding is there is a heirarchy of domestiques and the best are saved for last. I consider Bobby as one of best and I'm a big fan.

Anyway, there's more hills, more attacks to cover and more tempo to be made. I'd like to really hear from Bobby J. And if he's not well, I'd like to hear about it.

francois
 

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yeah, I heard his allergies were pretty bad.

Maybe he's just hanging out in the grupetto this week, letting sastre and voight do their thing, and so in the last week when the allergies clear up he'll have a lot of gas left.

He was pullin' like a monster in the TTT...
 

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they save the best 'climbing Doms' for the end

think LA 1999 - 2003 ya never saw George at the front. It wasn'tuntil he got better at climbing did he get tele-dutie. And still the final blow was left to the purer climbers who would blow away if their nose was stuck out in the wind on the flats. My fave LA TdF stage was the one in Belgium where Lance was glued to George and Eki's wheels as they absolutely crushed the cobbles. It's the only time in a race I ever thought I saw LA smile with a perverse 'my God these guys are savage nuts' grin on his face.
Bobby is a TTer at heart, far better than a 'climber' which most likely means he's keeping things under control in the earlier parts of the race. He's probably pretty knackerd, add in the allergies by the time they hit the hills. I also do hope he shows his face as well.
 
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I think Bobby J is very motivated, I read about his Giro ambitions in a recent mag (Road or Pro Cycling - can't remember which). He's not there for the win, but it seemed like he wanted a very good peformance. So either he's sick, or Riis is holding him back for tactical reasons. Since I see no reason for Riis to hold him this far back, I assume he is sick and somehow pulled it together for the TTT.
 

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francois said:
Point taken. 'when it counts' seems like the wrong term. It all counts, I concur.

I'm in the dark, I know because Bobby is invisible right now. But I'd like to see more of him as one of the final lieutenants alongside Basso. My understanding is there is a heirarchy of domestiques and the best are saved for last. I consider Bobby as one of best and I'm a big fan.

Anyway, there's more hills, more attacks to cover and more tempo to be made. I'd like to really hear from Bobby J. And if he's not well, I'd like to hear about it.

francois
Another point to remember is that the Giro is an Italian event and their public wants to know about the Italian riders. The other riders, from other countries, has to take a backseat. Especially this year where the top GC are Italian.
Of course, it would be nice to know what Bobby is up to but RAI is going to focus on their boys.
 

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yeah, i've been wondering the same. i had hoped he'd be one of the last guys with Basso in the mountains, but perhaps there is a reason for his performances so far. maybe it is allergies, or he's the main man for the early parts of the stages. perhaps he is just a bit short on form, or just cruising his way to the finishes to have something left for later in the race.

we won't really know until someone asks him.
 

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francois said:
Point taken. 'when it counts' seems like the wrong term. It all counts, I concur.

I'm in the dark, I know because Bobby is invisible right now. But I'd like to see more of him as one of the final lieutenants alongside Basso. My understanding is there is a heirarchy of domestiques and the best are saved for last. I consider Bobby as one of best and I'm a big fan.

Anyway, there's more hills, more attacks to cover and more tempo to be made. I'd like to really hear from Bobby J. And if he's not well, I'd like to hear about it.

francois

He said he was looking to peak towards the end of the year for those races.
 

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francois said:
Does he have bad form? Is he not motivated?

I've been checking on him from time to time and his performance so far has been miserable.

Today, he finished 18 minutes back and now he is 1 hour back on the GC.

Is he just training and saving himself for the TDF? Or is something wrong?

It's a little late in the season to be finishing 10 minutes back on every hard stage. Also, Basso needs him now.

It's not Riis' style to just get zero productivity from a domestique/helper prior to the big TDF race.

francois
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/giro06/?id=results/giro0610
U R kidding right? Bobby J is a character actor on CSC. Basso is the leading man. Your question is like asking, "what's wrong with Ekimov?" during the last 7 TDF's. There's nothing wrong the BJ, except the fact that he is doing what he is paid to do. Wake up!
 

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jbrumm said:
U R kidding right? Bobby J is a character actor on CSC. Basso is the leading man. Your question is like asking, "what's wrong with Ekimov?" during the last 7 TDF's. There's nothing wrong the BJ, except the fact that he is doing what he is paid to do. Wake up!
Easy to say, so show the goods. What exactly has he done the last four days to earn his salary?
 

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Well lets see. You can say he pulled at the front for so many miles or hours to keep a break within a manageable distance, you could show he got into some early breaks that went nowhere but used up a lot of energy, you could show how he towed teammates back to the pack after flats or mechanicals, you could show where he rode tempo for miles to stop any breaks from getting away or to tire out some of the pure climbers, or you could list any number of other efforts to illustrate how he worked for the team. Give me anything to show he didn't just sit in the pack doing nothing for the team until he blew and lost all that time.
 

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asgelle said:
Easy to say, so show the goods. What exactly has he done the last four days to earn his salary?
Why don't you show us where he has not pulled his weight?

The only thing you can show is that he is not time trialing up to his usual standard. Well the vast majority of domestiques cannot match that standard either. It does not mean that they are not useful to their teams.
 

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Running for the Vuelta?

I know I could track down his season's schedule, but I am too lazy right now. Do you think that he could be domestiqueing right now and for the Tour Daaay France and planning on going for the Vuelta and the Worlds?
 
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