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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey Guys!

I've bought a pair of Shimano's WH-R501 training wheels last year and was surprised to find that the wheel bearing on the front wheel is already cooked. While climbing standingly the front wheel moves side to side by about 3-4mm each side.

I have to ride with the brake quick release completely open for the wheel to not touch while riding - ain't much fun and braking is greatly compromised.

I've taken the wheel to the LBS recently and the mechanic told me that there was a lot of water and dirt coming out while servicing.

Should expect about 2000-3000km worth out of the wheel (in that current state)

I found that strange as I tend not to ride much in rainy conditions.

The servicing didn't fix the side to side bearing play so I'm gonna have to buy new wheel(s) now.

My questions are:

Could my cleaning routine have caused the water intrusion?

(using a sponge to clean all wheel components)

Is it smart to buy another pair of those wheels? (rear holds up fine)
 

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Should expect about 2000-3000km worth out of the wheel.
You should expect 10x that. 2-3k is only a few months of riding.

My questions are:

Could my cleaning routine have caused the water intrusion?
Maybe.

Is it smart to buy another pair of those wheels? (rear holds up fine)
If you were happy with them and no other problems, I don't see why not.

Did the mechanic say if the hubs were still packed with grease or was it all washed out?

Some things to keep in mind with those hubs. They're not sealed. So you must take care to keep water out and grease in. Also, they're cup/cone bearings. They must be adjusted properly and you must tighten your QR properly. It's possible to over tighten your QR and put extra friction on the bearings.
 

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If your bearing is indeed cooked it's probably because the hub adjustment is such that the wheel moves side to side. Not visa versa as in the wheel moves side to side because the bearing is cooked. I'm not sure but I think you have the cause/effect backwards. I really don't see how you could have shaved 3-4mm of the bearing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I wasn't quite sure whether to use the word ''hub'' or ''bearing'' in that case (engl is not my 1st language)

Can the hub be fixed then?
 

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I wasn't quite sure whether to use the word ''hub'' or ''bearing'' in that case (engl is not my 1st language)

Can the hub be fixed then?
okay, I get it now.

While I'm not familiar with that specific hub, hubs coming out of adjustment like that is fairly common and it's no big deal. I had a White hub develop side to side movement like that because I mistakenly thought there was one set screw but there were 3. I just re-adjusted it all have been well for thousands of miles.

I'm reasonably sure you'd just need the thing adjusted proper and you'll be all set. Maybe you do need bearings also but those are really cheap. A different mechanic might be decent idea.
 

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Have a different shop (because your current shop sounds kinda imcompetent) order you new cones & bearings. Simple, cheap. You don't need new wheels. Jesus...bike shops these days.
 

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Have a different shop (because your current shop sounds kinda imcompetent) order you new cones & bearings. Simple, cheap. You don't need new wheels. Jesus...bike shops these days.
Are replacement cones and bearings even available for a proprietary wheelset like these? I had a pair of RS-11's where the front hub went south at 3K miles - balls crumbled. Bike shop could not get the necessary parts, cones were scoured. Not sure about cups, but that may have been the show stopper as I think that is part of the hub itself? Shimano replaced wheelset for free with a pair of RS-21's.

And yes, I would move on to a different bike shop. I have some stories I could tell. :rolleyes5:
 

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Have a different shop (because your current shop sounds kinda imcompetent) order you new cones & bearings. Simple, cheap. You don't need new wheels. Jesus...bike shops these days.
While a new bike shop is probably a good thing, imho, the op should consider learning a few skills. Ie: watch a few youtubes and check out the conditions by himself - all for the price of a few cone wrenches.
 

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Hey Guys!

I've bought a pair of Shimano's WH-R501 training wheels last year and was surprised to find that the wheel bearing on the front wheel is already cooked. While climbing standingly the front wheel moves side to side by about 3-4mm each side.

I have to ride with the brake quick release completely open for the wheel to not touch while riding - ain't much fun and braking is greatly compromised.

I've taken the wheel to the LBS recently and the mechanic told me that there was a lot of water and dirt coming out while servicing.

Should expect about 2000-3000km worth out of the wheel (in that current state)

I found that strange as I tend not to ride much in rainy conditions.

The servicing didn't fix the side to side bearing play so I'm gonna have to buy new wheel(s) now.

My questions are:

Could my cleaning routine have caused the water intrusion?

(using a sponge to clean all wheel components)

Is it smart to buy another pair of those wheels? (rear holds up fine)
Buy 2 so called "Hub Cone Wrench" of the right size.

The cheaper ones (e.g. IceToolz).

Adjust the play and lock nut of the bearings. Also check if there is enough grease.

Edit: If you have to open the brakes while riding tells me there is something seriously wrong and unsafe to ride. I mean you must experience a lot of play if you need to open the brakes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I just did a bit of DYI.

I checked the bearings and they have been cleaned and greased by said bike shop.

I tightened the cones up as much as I could without causing friction while turning the axles - and STILL the lateral movement persists once I've reinstalled the wheel.

What could be the culprit of this?
 

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I just did a bit of DYI.

I checked the bearings and they have been cleaned and greased by said bike shop.

I tightened the cones up as much as I could without causing friction while turning the axles - and STILL the lateral movement persists once I've reinstalled the wheel.

What could be the culprit of this?
The lateral movement on a low spoke wheel will not go away no matter how tight you keep the cones. Expect 2-3mm typically.

Do a search and find articles on how to properly adjust the hub cones. Start with Sheldon Brown's website; under tool tips.

Dont confuse hub play with the mounted wheel lateral movement. Tighten your cones until there is a very small play at the hub, this should go away when the QR lever is locked down. If it does not, tighten the cones a bit more and try again. A properly tightened hub will let the wheel oscillate like a pendulum before coming to a complete stop when the wheel is held from the valve (usually its heaviest portion) at the 3 or 9 o'clock position and then let go.
 

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The lateral movement on a low spoke wheel will not go away no matter how tight you keep the cones. Expect 2-3mm typically.
On a rear wheel - yes.

On a front wheel - I doubt.

I have never heard anyone had to open the front brakes on a low spoke count wheel. Even a clydesdale shouldn't have a problem on a low spoke count front wheel with 20 spokes.

I have been commuting in a city for the last 9 years on a low spoke count front wheel (I also commuted on the WH R501 as far as I remember).
 

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On a rear wheel - yes.

On a front wheel - I doubt.

I have never heard anyone had to open the front brakes on a low spoke count wheel. Even a clydesdale shouldn't have a problem on a low spoke count front wheel with 20 spokes.

I have been commuting in a city for the last 9 years on a low spoke count front wheel (I also commuted on the WH R501 as far as I remember).
Not always the case with the manufactured wheels sold as a "system".

See the chart I attached. Lateral deflection in N/MM measured for front and rear wheel. Some series 5 Shimano included.
Note that the OP is now (after servicing the hub) evaluating the wheel's lateral movement upon installation, not use.

Text White Line Colorfulness Parallel

You mentioned your experience with commuting. The lateral forces the front wheel sees while commuting are expected to typically be of lesser magnitude than those when standing while climbing, as the OP said he did. Such action usually moves the bike side-to-side and applies the greatest lateral force to the wheel (greater N force).
It should be also noted that the lateral movement under these dynamic conditions is not the same as when the wheel is statically loaded (squeeze the wheel against the brake pads and see how much the displacement is)

Incidentally, I have caused my front Enve 45/R45/CxRay to rub against the pads when climbing, all-out. I do tend to tilt the bike though and I am a big guy. No rub under normal riding. Carbon rims, though behave differently than aluminum as the whole rim displaces laterally rather than its bottom portion.
 

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Not always the case with the manufactured wheels sold as a "system".

See the chart I attached. Lateral deflection in N/MM measured for front and rear wheel. Some series 5 Shimano included.
Note that the OP is now (after servicing the hub) evaluating the wheel's lateral movement upon installation, not use.

View attachment 316630

You mentioned your experience with commuting. The lateral forces the front wheel sees while commuting are expected to typically be of lesser magnitude than those when standing while climbing, as the OP said he did. Such action usually moves the bike side-to-side and applies the greatest lateral force to the wheel (greater N force).
It should be also noted that the lateral movement under these dynamic conditions is not the same as when the wheel is statically loaded (squeeze the wheel against the brake pads and see how much the displacement is)

Incidentally, I have caused my front Enve 45/R45/CxRay to rub against the pads when climbing, all-out. I do tend to tilt the bike though and I am a big guy. No rub under normal riding. Carbon rims, though behave differently than aluminum as the whole rim displaces laterally rather than its bottom portion.
Maybe I habe been misreading OP's post.

I thought he experiences play in his bearings due to an improperly adjusted lock nut.

As far as I remember the WH-R501 don't feature a cartridge bearing system, instead they rely on an old school bearing system that can be adjusted.
 

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My impression after reading the thread is that the OP still experiences some lateral movement after installing the serviced wheel. Im assuming he is evaluating this statically by pulling the wheel towards the pads. Thus my point about lateral displacement (mm) being present as is a factor of the applied force (N).

And, Yes, the R501s are cup & cone. Shimano's budget-friendly offering.
 

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As far as I remember the WH-R501 don't feature a cartridge bearing system, instead they rely on an old school bearing system that can be adjusted.
All Shimano hubs are cup and cone. Just about everything else is cartridge. Each type have their own sets of advantages and disadvantages.

I just did a bit of DYI.

I checked the bearings and they have been cleaned and greased by said bike shop.

I tightened the cones up as much as I could without causing friction while turning the axles - and STILL the lateral movement persists once I've reinstalled the wheel.

What could be the culprit of this?
Here's a thought and I say it just because it happened to me once on an older mountain bike with Shimano hubs. Are you sure your axle threads aren't stripped?
 

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Pretty sure it's you and not the OP confusing the two. Even the dumbest of mechanics wouldn't have taken apart the hub if the OP was showing him lateral movement not hub play.
Very cocky attitude from someone who has admitted not knowing much about the hub in question!

What the OP originally experienced is probably the combination of both.
 

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Very cocky attitude from someone who has admitted not knowing much about the hub in question!

What the OP originally experienced is probably the combination of both.
good lord, you have a tendency to misinterpret and over react to anything that even approaches not being in full agreement with you so I should have expected as much. I thought it was clear I was just trying to straighten out what the problem was, but if you think that makes me cocky, well, whatever. Knowing about a particular hub, or not, has nothing to do with anything in this context.
 

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good lord, you have a tendency to misinterpret and over react to anything that even approaches not being in full agreement with you so I should have expected as much. I thought it was clear I was just trying to straighten out what the problem was, but if you think that makes me cocky, well, whatever. Knowing about a particular hub, or not, has nothing to do with anything in this context.
"Pretty sure its you and not the OP confusing the two" doesn't leave a lot to misinterpret. Its nothing but empty words in a negative tone statement that challenges one's patience with the BS abundant at times.
Over and out!
 
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