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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First I want to say hey sooo hey. Little background, I'm a mountain biker at heart but due to medical reasons I'm going to do recovery/ training this year on a road bike (Tarmac) that I am building as we speak. Never been much for off the floor bikes even though the ones I build end up costing me more in the end but hey then it's mine. Anyhoo I weigh about 205# and what I plan on riding is fairly hilly and some fast paced group rides (someday I hope). I have 2 wheelsets on the way and I not sure which one one be best for my weight and riding intentions so I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

Shimano Dura ace 7850 carbon or American Classic 420 aero 3 for a clyde?

Thanks....D
 

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In my search for wheels for a 205 pound rider (my weight) I discovered that the - very sexy - AC 420's were not particularly stiff (laterally). Since I was tired of having my rear wheel flex pad to pad on standing climbs, I used my upper brain to cross them off my list.

The other wheel seems like a low spoke carbon hoop. I dunno man, I am not a seasoned veteran, but neither one seems particularly fit for purpose, if that purpose is to haul 200lbs up hills.

If you have two sets on the way, it seems like you've made up your mind already. Is the plan to send one of these back?

I went with a Kinlin 279 rim (23mm wide, 28mm deep) 24 spokes up front 28 out back. I get the comfort, strength and aero benefit of wider rims at no weight penalty. At 205 pounds, your priority should be stiffness and not saving 100 grams here and there. You and I are not 160 pound riders, forget 18-20 spoke configurations, triplet lacing and all that noise. It may look good as hell but it's not for us.

If you want to go pre built, the clyde versions of the HED Ardennes and Bastogne would be ideal for you.
 

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I'd definitely take my chances on the Shimano's before I would the AC's. Neither would be my pick it I was 205 but the Shimano's have a pretty good track record of heavy guys being fine on them (despite the lower spoke count).

Not that you asked but you should probably go with at least 25mm tires.

205 isn't really that heavy but weight is only part of the picture. Road conditions and if you are 'light on the bike', so to speak, or heavy make a huge difference too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'd definitely take my chances on the Shimano's before I would the AC's. Neither would be my pick it I was 205 but the Shimano's have a pretty good track record of heavy guys being fine on them (despite the lower spoke count).

Not that you asked but you should probably go with at least 25mm tires.

205 isn't really that heavy but weight is only part of the picture. Road conditions and if you are 'light on the bike', so to speak, or heavy make a huge difference too.
Thanks I never thought of going to 25mm tires. Also my roads are decent and I am pretty light on a bike.
 

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First I want to say hey sooo hey. Little background, I'm a mountain biker at heart but due to medical reasons I'm going to do recovery/ training this year on a road bike (Tarmac) that I am building as we speak. Never been much for off the floor bikes even though the ones I build end up costing me more in the end but hey then it's mine. Anyhoo I weigh about 205# and what I plan on riding is fairly hilly and some fast paced group rides (someday I hope). I have 2 wheelsets on the way and I not sure which one one be best for my weight and riding intentions so I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

Shimano Dura ace 7850 carbon or American Classic 420 aero 3 for a clyde?

Thanks....D
First of all why associate yourself with horses? :hand:

You are a mountain biker; not too many horses up there..... take a hint from my handle :yesnod:

The wheels you are asking for have been tested by Roues Artisanales with the following results for lateral stiffness in N/mm; you did not indicate which 7850 you have coming so I'm listing all I have data for:

AC 420............................50f/38r
7850-c24-tu.....................56f/50r
7850-c24-cl......................42f/40r
7850-c50-tu......................68f/55r

At your weight you need to pick a wheel with a lateral stiffness higher than 40 N/mm so the AC and the 7850 clincher are not good choices. Dealing with tubs may be a pain in the arse although the end results may make it worthwhile.
Another way to approach it is having a reputable builder build you a set using the appropriatte number of spokes for your weight and use, for a wheel designed for your requirements.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the test data is from 2008 vintage wheels.
 

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Thanks I never thought of going to 25mm tires. Also my roads are decent and I am pretty light on a bike.
Not surprising, considering your MTB background. People are always amazed that I've never broken a spoke, tacoed a wheel, or had any wheel problems at all (I weigh 300+ now, 250lbs when I started riding in the early 90s). I started on a MTB 20-ish years ago, before suspension was the default, so I know how to be "light" on the bike. That will save a lot of wheel problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks guys!! I have been nursing an injury for a 1 1/2 which has helped get me to my weight I'm at now. I have a surgery coming up so riding will be real light for about 6 months and hopefully I will be back down to my 170 race weight before any hard riding happens. Thanks again.....D.
p.s. I really don't get the horse thing.
 

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28/24 spoke count for a guy who weighs over 200 pounds? I have to disagree! I think you should be running 32/28 at least if you want the wheel set to hold up for a longer time with less truing. A 28/24 spoke count wheel set is marginal for a person over 200 pounds, add on top of that the stress of riding mountains? If you step up to a 32/28 it will only cost you a gain of about 27.5 grams per wheel in added weight, that's nothing. You need to rethink this some more. Today's fad is to run low spoke counts but that's only great for the pros who often only weigh 150 to 165, but not great for most people, and especially not great for everyday riding when we can't get free wheel sets when we break ours.
 

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28/24 spoke count for a guy who weighs over 200 pounds? I have to disagree! I think you should be running 32/28 at least if you want the wheel set to hold up for a longer time with less truing. A 28/24 spoke count wheel set is marginal for a person over 200 pounds, add on top of that the stress of riding mountains? If you step up to a 32/28 it will only cost you a gain of about 27.5 grams per wheel in added weight, that's nothing. You need to rethink this some more. Today's fad is to run low spoke counts but that's only great for the pros who often only weigh 150 to 165, but not great for most people, and especially not great for everyday riding when we can't get free wheel sets when we break ours.
I weigh a little less than the OP (I'm 195#), and I routinely ride my 24/28 wheels on dirt roads and trails (with 28mm tires).
 

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I weigh a little less than the OP (I'm 195#), and I routinely ride my 24/28 wheels on dirt roads and trails (with 28mm tires).
What I said is just an opinion, howbeit one shared by most wheel builders. Peter White and Pro Wheel Builders well all tell you that if you want a wheel to last a long time then depending on weight more spokes are better then less, and Pro Wheel Builder told me that if I wanted a wheel set to last longer then 5 years to go with 32 on the rear and 28 on the front...I weigh 163. Peter White on his web site is very blatant about people weighing over the max of most pro racers trying to get low spoke wheels, he built me a set of touring wheels knowing that I weigh 163 with 40 spokes all around. Williams Cycling who builds wheels list the max rated rider weight on each of their wheel designs; see: Williams System 30 Alloy Clincher Wheelset Those limits are industry standard not some pie in the sky philosophy mumbo jumbo.

Now, however you want to have a wheel set built is up to you of course, but if you want long wheel life you need to pay attention to the fact that lower spoke counts will not result in a long lived wheel set. And for some having a wheel set for 3 to 5 years is fine, it's the cost of riding a bike, but for others they want a wheel set to last 15 years or longer. And the weigh savings of going with 4 less spokes per wheel is just ridiculously small at about 27.5 grams per wheel but cuts into the durability factor hugely.
 

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if I wanted a wheel set to last longer then 5 years to go with 32 on the rear and 28 on the front...I weigh 163.
You don't need a high spoke count to have a durable build. I have plenty of 20/24 wheels out there that have 5 years on them. Spoke count is only one piece of the puzzle. Tensioning and stress relief will arguable have a bigger effect on durability than spoke count alone.
 

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What I said is just an opinion, howbeit one shared by most wheel builders. Peter White and Pro Wheel Builders well all tell you that if you want a wheel to last a long time then depending on weight more spokes are better then less, and Pro Wheel Builder told me that if I wanted a wheel set to last longer then 5 years to go with 32 on the rear and 28 on the front...I weigh 163. Peter White on his web site is very blatant about people weighing over the max of most pro racers trying to get low spoke wheels, he built me a set of touring wheels knowing that I weigh 163 with 40 spokes all around. Williams Cycling who builds wheels list the max rated rider weight on each of their wheel designs; see: Williams System 30 Alloy Clincher Wheelset Those limits are industry standard not some pie in the sky philosophy mumbo jumbo.

Now, however you want to have a wheel set built is up to you of course, but if you want long wheel life you need to pay attention to the fact that lower spoke counts will not result in a long lived wheel set. And for some having a wheel set for 3 to 5 years is fine, it's the cost of riding a bike, but for others they want a wheel set to last 15 years or longer. And the weigh savings of going with 4 less spokes per wheel is just ridiculously small at about 27.5 grams per wheel but cuts into the durability factor hugely.
When Ergott Wheels was building up the Pacenti SL23 rims I was reviewing, I told him to pick whatever spoke count and lacing pattern he felt was best. I gave him info about my weight, riding style, terrain preferences, etc. What showed up a week later were the aforementioned 24/28 wheels. Considering that his (company) name was on the rims, I don't think he would have built something stupid-light.

And FWIW, I've also ridden wheels that were built by Peter White. They were a very conservative build (32/32, box section, etc), and they were no more reliable than the lighter wheels I've been riding.
 

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Williams Cycling who builds wheels list the max rated rider weight on each of their wheel designs; see: Williams System 30 Alloy Clincher Wheelset Those limits are industry standard not some pie in the sky philosophy mumbo jumbo.
Williams has changed their wheel specs. Their older 30X was built 24/.28 with Pillar bladed spokes, and rated as I recall to 230 or 240 lbs. I have a set I bought in 2007 that has been ridden quite hard, and only suffered a single non-DS spoke break (my weight fluctuated between 205-220 during that time).

More recent 30X's are now 28/32 built with CXray spokes. They still have a 24/28 System 30 wheel, but it has been de-rated to 215 lbs
 
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