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Discussion Starter #1
Where has Basso, Ullrich, Vino, Cunego, etc. been during the classics?
Man I miss days when Armstrong was racing Flanders, LBL, Amstel, etc. As long as these guys refuse to race in the Spring, they'll never be considered in the same league as Armstrong.
 

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Jesse D Smith said:
...As long as these guys refuse to race in the Spring, they'll never be considered in the same league as Armstrong.
That's funny. Many people would say that Armstrong raced the least of any Tour contender/winner including everyone you mentioned (with the possible exception of Ullrich). By the way, Basso, Cunego and Vino already have wins under their belt this year.

Having said that, It's not likely anyone will be in the same league as Armstrong in the area he specialized in.
 

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They are...

Jesse D Smith said:
Where has Basso, Ullrich, Vino, Cunego, etc. been during the classics?
Man I miss days when Armstrong was racing Flanders, LBL, Amstel, etc. As long as these guys refuse to race in the Spring, they'll never be considered in the same league as Armstrong.
Well, some of them are currently preparing to ride the Giro, and don't want to risk injury riding the Classics, and really, the races don't suit them very well. Some are training for other stage races, and concentrating on races that suit their racing profile.

Armstrong did race some of these races in the past, but he never did very many of them. Aside from that, bar anyone winning 7 Tour de Frances in a row, nobody will be in the same league as Armstrong as far as Tour de France riders, ever. Until someone wins 8 in a row, and that's a tall order.

PS: Armstrong after he changed over to riding the Tour to win, didn't ride very many classics races after that. There were a couple of shots at Amstel, and a couple of other rides in support of Hincapie. Pre cancer he did win Fleche Wallone, but mainly he stuck to spring shorter stage races, and not many of them at all. To claim he rode in the Spring is just pure fantasy. He made selected appearances. And not very often.
 

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They are not shown on OLN doesn't mean they are not racing. Lance takes the cake when it comes to focusing on one race and ignoring the rest. Don't get me wrong, Lance is the man but he just doesn't do much non-TDF racing.
 

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Jesse D Smith said:
Where has Basso, Ullrich, Vino, Cunego, etc. been during the classics?
Man I miss days when Armstrong was racing Flanders, LBL, Amstel, etc. As long as these guys refuse to race in the Spring, they'll never be considered in the same league as Armstrong.
Are you freaking serious? Is it still April fool's?? The only Classic Armstrong had a shot at winning was Amstel. He couldn't even win that.

Armstrong is the finest TDF rider to date. No one on that list is even close to the 'same league as Armstrong'. Not until they win 7 TDFs. But let's leave it at that. Let's not pretend how well-rounded a rider he was cause he showed up for some classics.

If your inquiry is serious,
Basso won Paris-Nice this year. Basso is starting the Giro in two weeks.
Vino is going to defend his L-B-L title next week.
Cunego is starting the Giro in two weeks. He will not race TDF.
Ullrich is riding the Giro in two weeks but just to train for the TDF.

francois
 

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Jesse D Smith said:
Where has Basso, Ullrich, Vino, Cunego, etc. been during the classics?
Man I miss days when Armstrong was racing Flanders, LBL, Amstel, etc. As long as these guys refuse to race in the Spring, they'll never be considered in the same league as Armstrong.
Last time LA raced a classic was Amstel in 2001. The closest he's come to winning a classic is 1996 when he was second in LBL.

Basso on the other hand is regularily in the top 10 of LBL and races in Lombardy in October, a month that Armstrong has not been seen racing in for nigh on a decade!

BTW Francois, Mr Landis won Paris Nice. Basso won the Criterium Intenational.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
francois said:
Are you freaking serious? Is it still April fool's?? The only Classic Armstrong had a shot at winning was Amstel. He couldn't even win that.

Armstrong is the finest TDF rider to date. No one on that list is even close to the 'same league as Armstrong'. Not until they win 7 TDFs. But let's leave it at that. Let's not pretend how well-rounded a rider he was cause he showed up for some classics.

If your inquiry is serious,
Basso won Paris-Nice this year. Basso is starting the Giro in two weeks.
Vino is going to defend his L-B-L title next week.
Cunego is starting the Giro in two weeks. He will not race TDF.
Ullrich is riding the Giro in two weeks but just to train for the TDF.

francois
I won't ruin the opportunity for you to do your own research, but here's a hint. Lance has a classic victory and was a serious contender in others. We've had many people post his race schedule and palmares. You should make it a sticky since so many people need to refer to it so often.
 

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Jesse D Smith said:
I won't ruin the opportunity for you to do your own research, but here's a hint. Lance has a classic victory and was a serious contender in others. We've had many people post his race schedule and palmares. You should make it a sticky since so many people need to refer to it so often.
Yes, LA won San Sebastian and even the Fleche Wallon, but that was BEFORE he was a TdF contender. When he was a Tour contender he came close to winning the Amstel twice, but that's not even a real classic. The last four years of his career he performed like wet poo in any classic he entered. Your point again?
 

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ultimobici said:
Last time LA raced a classic was Amstel in 2001. The closest he's come to winning a classic is 1996 when he was second in LBL.

Basso on the other hand is regularily in the top 10 of LBL and races in Lombardy in October, a month that Armstrong has not been seen racing in for nigh on a decade!

BTW Francois, Mr Landis won Paris Nice. Basso won the Criterium Intenational.
Armstrong was second at Amstel in 1999 and 2001, as well as 4th in 2002.
Second is as "close to winning" as they come in my book, no? :)
 

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Jesse D Smith said:
I won't ruin the opportunity for you to do your own research, but here's a hint. Lance has a classic victory and was a serious contender in others. We've had many people post his race schedule and palmares. You should make it a sticky since so many people need to refer to it so often.
Classic in my book is one of the monuments -
  • Milan-San Remo
  • Ronde Van Vlaandren
  • Paris Roubaix
  • Liege-Bastogne-Liege
  • Giro di Lombardia
Amstel is a classic but not a Monument (unless you're Dutch!). Fleche Wallone and San Sebastian aren't really classics. Indeed Fleche has always been called a semi-classic.

LA has never won any of the monuments. He's come close in LBL a decade ago, and won Amstel 11 years ago.

Since his comeback he didn't really target the classics and was never in good enough condition, so we'll never know.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Vel07 said:
Basso won CI. I thought Landis won PN?
I neglected to include Landis in the list of Tour contenders. My mistake. He's taken Paris-Nice and the Tour of California. He's shown he can race early on with success, unlike the others. He should be remembered along with Horner as a contenders who have great results BEFORE the big shows instead of just showing up to prep for the Tour.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
chock full'o qualifiers

ultimobici said:
Classic in my book is one of the monuments -
  • Milan-San Remo
  • Ronde Van Vlaandren
  • Paris Roubaix
  • Liege-Bastogne-Liege
  • Giro di Lombardia
Amstel is a classic but not a Monument (unless you're Dutch!). Fleche Wallone and San Sebastian aren't really classics. Indeed Fleche has always been called a semi-classic.

LA has never won any of the monuments. He's come close in LBL a decade ago, and won Amstel 11 years ago.

Since his comeback he didn't really target the classics and was never in good enough condition, so we'll never know.

Man, the list of what's considered a classic gets shorter and shorter every year.:rolleyes:
No doubt if Lance had won any of that short list, the naysayers would amend it accordingly.
 

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ultimobici said:
Last time LA raced a classic was Amstel in 2001. The closest he's come to winning a classic is 1996 when he was second in LBL.

Basso on the other hand is regularily in the top 10 of LBL and races in Lombardy in October, a month that Armstrong has not been seen racing in for nigh on a decade!

BTW Francois, Mr Landis won Paris Nice. Basso won the Criterium Intenational.
Wrong! He raced the Tour of Flanders in support of George after 2001. I would have looked it up but you are so obviously wrong that I did not take the time to go back and check the exact date. I think it was 2003.
 

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ultimobici said:
Last time LA raced a classic was Amstel in 2001. The closest he's come to winning a classic is 1996 when he was second in LBL.

Basso on the other hand is regularily in the top 10 of LBL and races in Lombardy in October, a month that Armstrong has not been seen racing in for nigh on a decade!

BTW Francois, Mr Landis won Paris Nice. Basso won the Criterium Intenational.
While not an Armstrong apologist, Lance raced Flanders in 2002 in support of George and finished 59th at 2:59 behind the winner Andrea Tafi.
 

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Jesse D Smith said:
Man, the list of what's considered a classic gets shorter and shorter every year.:rolleyes:
No doubt if Lance had won any of that short list, the naysayers would amend it accordingly.[/QUOTE

The biggest knock against Lance is that he was probably capable of so much more yet we will never know. At least prior to his last few seasons when he didn't get in shape until closer to the Tour he was a protagonist at Amstel. I'd like to see Basso take the Giro and Tour this year if for nothing else to show that if you have the ability there is no need to make the Tour the end all and be all of your season.
 

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mikeman said:
Wrong! He raced the Tour of Flanders in support of George after 2001. I would have looked it up but you are so obviously wrong that I did not take the time to go back and check the exact date. I think it was 2003.
Bad intel! But he didn't even show up in 2003 & 2004.

As far as the list of Monuments is concerned, it hasn't changed in years. MSR, RVV, PR, LBL & Lombardy. The list hasn't shrunk and it isn't going to grow.
 

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I hate to ask since I am a fan of his.
But wasnt it the 2003 Dauphine that LA tried so hard to win and lost to Mayo, then almost lost the tour cause he blew his load in the Dauphine? Then after that he never tried to win another race prior to the TDF. (exception 2004 TDG)
 

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don't forget 03

when LA had a good shot at winning L-B-L but wound up in a break with 2 wheelsuckers.
he was strong enough to win but should have slowed for Axel as he would have raced with him vs sit on.
 
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