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so i picked up a big can of it on the cheap... on the can of powder it says before or after workout but i was under the impression that you should consume the protein after the ride, is this correct for muscle building and repair? any need to really drink the protein pre-ride? also, is there any weight gain associated with this, it seems low-calorie enough that i couldn't see it adding pounds. thanks for any info in advance.:thumbsup:
 

· It's all ball bearings
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I personally take it after a ride, and that's only after realllly hard rides that involved tons of hard climbing, sprinting, or other anaerobic work. Take it within 15 minutes of completing a hard workout.

Taking it before a ride is but a waste of money IMO.

Most whey protein powders have virtually no calories. Shouldn't be a problem as far as maintaining weight, unless you are hitting the weights at the gym and tend to gain muscle easily.
 

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BenWA said:
I personally take it after a ride, and that's only after realllly hard rides that involved tons of hard climbing, sprinting, or other anaerobic work. Take it within 15 minutes of completing a hard workout.

Taking it before a ride is but a waste of money IMO.

Most whey protein powders have virtually no calories. Shouldn't be a problem as far as maintaining weight, unless you are hitting the weights at the gym and tend to gain muscle easily.

Taking wey-portien(or any other protien) on it's own after any workout is a waste of money.
You want to take a combo of PRO and CHO to help rebuild muscle and restore Glycogen stores(most research shows about 4grams CHO to1gramPRO) So almost all of the recovery drinks out there will do the job or you can mix your own.
Most people who eat a standard western diet probably get more then enough PRO any way(1-2grams per KG of Lean Body Mass is recommended per day). Excess PRO like FAT and CHO is stored as(in) Fat or excreted, so pretty much a waste of money all around.
PRO also contains the same amount of Kcals (per gram) as CHO so yes it has plenty of Kcals. Save your money and get some nice lean meats(or chicken) it's cheaper then the PRO powders and abetter source of PRO.
 

· Anti-Hero
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Typically, the recommended protein intake is Average adult: .8g/kg and Athlete: 1.5 to 2g/kg per day. That's kg of bodymass, too, not lean body mass. Keep in mind this is very general, and covers all types of athletes. Cyclists would most likely be fine at the lower end of the range with 1.5g/kg.

After endurance training, it probably is best to take in the 4:1 carb to protein ratio in liquid form, because this is absorbed quickest, but some research shows that the ratio doesn't matter as much as just total calories consumed. Whey protein is a great source of protein because it's low in fat and is more digestible than any other form of protein (including all other plant and animal sources).

As far as timing goes, I don't think you'd see any acute performance benefits to drinking a whey shake immediately before training. It's better used in the time after training (not necessarily immediately following) to get the recommended amount that will promote optimal muscle rebuilding following your training.
 

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BenWA said:
Most whey protein powders have virtually no calories.
Whaaaaa???? Mine uses Splenda as a sweetener and still has about 140 calories per scoop (about 60 grams of protein before the milk)...I usually use 2 scoops with fruit and milk for a breakfast replacement. Probably over 500 cals right there, but a lot of protein if you need it.
 

· NeoRetroGrouch
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tindrum said:
so i picked up a big can of it on the cheap... on the can of powder it says before or after workout but i was under the impression that you should consume the protein after the ride, is this correct for muscle building and repair? any need to really drink the protein pre-ride? also, is there any weight gain associated with this, it seems low-calorie enough that i couldn't see it adding pounds. thanks for any info in advance.:thumbsup:
I've seen no real evidence that any extra protein is helpful for an endurance athlete with a normal diet. The famous (infamous?) Hammer study failed to take into account the extra calories.

Also, protein has the same calories per weight as sugar.

TF
 

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TurboTurtle said:
I've seen no real evidence that any extra protein is helpful for an endurance athlete with a normal diet. The famous (infamous?) Hammer study failed to take into account the extra calories.

Also, protein has the same calories per weight as sugar.

TF
I think it's only a factor if you're protein deficient. Those who eat meat probably get plenty of protein already. It can also be a cheap method of getting your daily protein requirements--one shake in the morning with 60 grams of protein is like eating a couple chicken breasts protein-wise.
 

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Bocephus Jones II said:
I think it's only a factor if you're protein deficient. Those who eat meat probably get plenty of protein already. It can also be a cheap method of getting your daily protein requirements--one shake in the morning with 60 grams of protein is like eating a couple chicken breasts protein-wise.
Except those using protein suppliments instead of 'food' protein would probably also be the first to scream about the "empty calories" of a pure carbohydrate. - TF
 

· Anti-Hero
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If you're involved in an activity that results in protein breakdown, then you need extra protein. To the endurance athlete, this includes any long-duration training in which the body is more likely to break down protein as an energy source (albeit a very small, but still measurable amount). It also includes high-intensity riding that could cause some microtrauma to the muscle fibers themselves (similar to resistance training on a much smaller scale, but the repetition tends to be higher).

My point is, even endurance athletes have greater protein needs than the average, sedentary person. Whey is a good supplement for this cause because it's cheap and digests better than other proteins.
 

· The Dropped 1
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I think if you have a clean diet you are probably getting plenty of protein anyway. For cyclists I think carbs/glycogen is more important to replenish, at least from what I have read.

Doing the math I'm already getting more protein than the equation and that's not adding protein in anywhere.

Once your whey is gone, drink chocolate milk as a recovery drink :thumbsup:
 

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Andrea138 said:
Typically, the recommended protein intake is Average adult: .8g/kg and Athlete: 1.5 to 2g/kg per day. That's kg of bodymass, too, not lean body mass. Keep in mind this is very general, and covers all types of athletes. Cyclists would most likely be fine at the lower end of the range with 1.5g/kg.

Andrea you are correct. I ment per LB Body mass.
But I would like to add that there is some evidence that 1.5 gm might be on low (even for endurance athlete) side.
David Sandler's work seems to shows that we may have underestimated the amount of PRO needed for endurance athletes(not sure if his work has been peer reviewed as yet I talked to him at at seminar this past winter and I think it was in the process).
There is also some work that has shown(I for get who , but was sursprised) that adding creatine to post workout /recovery drinks will help endurance athletes recover. Haven't tried that yet.
Not trying to look for fly crap in pepper.
thanks
 

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Eating anything other than a gel or a light piece of fruit less than two hours before
a ride inevitably upsets my stomach. I would think that whey protein should definitely
not be eaten immediately proceeding a hard ride, right?
 

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reikisport said:
Andrea138 said:
Typically, the recommended protein intake is Average adult: .8g/kg and Athlete: 1.5 to 2g/kg per day. That's kg of bodymass, too, not lean body mass. Keep in mind this is very general, and covers all types of athletes. Cyclists would most likely be fine at the lower end of the range with 1.5g/kg.
Andrea you are correct. I ment per LB Body mass.
But I would like to add that there is some evidence that 1.5 gm might be on low (even for endurance athlete) side.
David Sandler's work seems to shows that we may have underestimated the amount of PRO needed for endurance athletes(not sure if his work has been peer reviewed as yet I talked to him at at seminar this past winter and I think it was in the process).
There is also some work that has shown(I for get who , but was sursprised) that adding creatine to post workout /recovery drinks will help endurance athletes recover. Haven't tried that yet.
Not trying to look for fly crap in pepper.
thanks

Yeah, I actually shoot more for 2g/kg, but, trying to encourage endurance athletes to put down the pasta for a protein shake can be like trying to heard cats.

Creatine hasn't been proven to help endurance athletes much except in situations where they need a very fast, anaerobic burst. Many times a side effect of creatine is water weight gain (from storage of more creatine in the muscle), so it's possible that while it could give them a boost for anaerobic bursts, that could be negated by the ~5 pounds of weight gain that some people experience when the supplement with it.
From personal experience, I use it in the off-season while I'm lifting weights, and it makes me gain about 5 pounds. My training partner, who is trying to improve his "snap" on attacks and sprints, just started using it, and hasn't gained any weight (actually lost a pound over the last week).
 

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Andrea138 said:
put down the pasta for a protein shake
get this instead of regular pasta and you have both at the same time



<img src=https://www.barillaus.com/Home/PublishingImages/Plus_protein_chart_V2.gif>
 

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isn't the argument that a 4:1 carb/protein ratio is optimal for glycogen storage after exercise. A higher amount of protein results in less glycogen storage, whereas 4:1 results in much more (I've seen reports of +100%) glycogen storage vs. carbohydrates alone. Endurox works for me if I want a drink, or a peanut butter/jelly sandwich
 

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Understanding the research

stevesbike said:
isn't the argument that a 4:1 carb/protein ratio is optimal for glycogen storage after exercise. A higher amount of protein results in less glycogen storage, whereas 4:1 results in much more (I've seen reports of +100%) glycogen storage vs. carbohydrates alone.
You should know that the famous "4:1" ratio comes from a study that compared carb only to a 4 carb, 1 protein snack. They looked at no other ratio, so you don't know if 4:1 is optimum, only that it is better than carbs only. Andrew Coogan, who seems knowledgeable on the topic, recommends 10:1 (just a bit of protein in a high carb snack).

BTW, there's no quality data supporting protein intake above 0.7 gm/lb (1.5 gm/kg) of body mass for endurance athletes. (Nancy Clark, RD, Adventure Cyclist, July 2001).

benWA said:
Most whey protein powders have virtually no calories.
Uh, no. Carbohydrates are 4 calories per gram. Protein is 4 calories per gram. How you get from 4 calories per gram to "virtually no calories" is a mystery to me.
 

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I agree-I use Endurox mostly because it tastes pretty good after a ride (at least the fruit punch), it doesn't cause stomach distress, and I figure the bit of protein likely isn't hurting in the worst case. It is pretty amazing how poor nutritional science is with respect to optimizing post-exercise recovery. In pubmed, I see a few hundred papers on the subject, but none are particularly well designed or conclusive.
 

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whey vs soy

I was at the lbs today. The manager recomended accelerade sport drink. It has the 4 carbs to 1 protein. I asked what kind of protein. And he read the label and whey protein was listed. Its my understanding that you don't want whey protein before or during excercise. Something about your body producing amonia and its not good for the muscles.
 

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[
Creatine hasn't been proven to help endurance athletes much except in situations where they need a very fast, anaerobic burst. Many times a side effect of creatine is water weight gain (from storage of more creatine in the muscle), so it's possible that while it could give them a boost for anaerobic bursts, that could be negated by the ~5 pounds of weight gain that some people experience when the supplement with it.


Yes thats why I was surprised by this when I heard it. but according to Dave Sandler and a presenter at the Maine State NSCA conference both (different seminars & both presenters had extensive nutrition backgrounds ) suggested that as an aid to recovery it had shown promise for endurance athletes. This was not a take it every day type of thing but only as part of the recovery process after hard training /racing. Just something to think about.
As far as the 4:1 it's kind of gotten to be like the drink 8 glasses of water/day thing there isn't much reseach but it seems to be almost written in stone.
There was some talk of a study done by the Cooper Institue that showed the need for a higher amount of PRO also. Not sure what happened with that all I heard (from one of the PHDs) was the he was even surprised on how much above the norm endurence athletes needed.
 
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