[WIBadger]

This article got me thinking: Whey Protein: Concentrate versus Isolate | Mike's Mix Recovery Drink

What's your take? I'm not lactose intolerant but I haven't had milk in years.

 

[looigi]

Personally, I use isolate to add some protein to breakfast oatmeal or cereal, or to a recovery shake, about 15-20 gm in either case, which is 1/2 or less of the scoop they provide. It's only a minor constituent of my diet. Nothing really wrong with the "concentrate" AFAIK...seems it mainly has a bit more fat and carbs...

Some have additives, like taurine and creatine for example. OK, I guess, if that's what you want. But if using those, I'd add them separately.

 

[Kerry Irons]

This article got me thinking: Whey Protein: Concentrate versus Isolate | Mike's Mix Recovery Drink

What's your take? I'm not lactose intolerant but I haven't had milk in years.

Overthinking. You can get protein from lots of sources and the "quality" difference is really over rated. Studies on chocolate milk show it is just as good as the high tech stuff. An easy way to add protein to your diet is non-fat powdered milk. Whey protein is (obviously) dairy sourced so it's just another form of milk.

 

[stevesbike]

by 'studies' on chocolate milk are you referring to the Karp study? The little study of nine subjects that had the benefit of being funded by the dairy council? Amazing what a billion dollar lobby group will do for publicity. FWIW, it isn't even relevant to this tread, since the authors suggest it was the CHO composition (and not the protein content) that may have contributed to the second exercise bout performance. And, even though no one mentions it, it's only relevant if you're doing 2 sessions a day, since the benefit was dependent on having only 4 hours separating exercise sessions.

The primary group of milk proteins are the caseins. There is controversy regarding wheher casein is a cancer promoter. This notion was popularized by Campbell and the China study. Both whey and casein can cause immune responses, have different absorption rates, etc. Personally, I think people should be thinking more about their protein souces, not less. I switched to vega protein (all plant-derived) and noticed the first time I used it none of the usual bloated feeling from dairy-sourced protein.

Overthinking. You can get protein from lots of sources and the "quality" difference is really over rated. Studies on chocolate milk show it is just as good as the high tech stuff. An easy way to add protein to your diet is non-fat powdered milk. Whey protein is (obviously) dairy sourced so it's just another form of milk.

 

[evs]

I use whey isolate as an addition to my diet. Especailly after a hard workout and when I'm trying to lose some weight. The high protein content fills me up and its a quick replacement meal when Im trying to cut calories. The isolate has more protein per scoop compared to the concentrate. I used the concentrate for a long time and found that the isolate mixes so much better. No clumps and all I need is a spoon to mix it as opposed to using a blender. Also, a side benifit is all the nutrients that are added. Amino acids, vitamins ect. I currently use the Body Fortress brand which is not to expensive. Chocalte milk is good but doesn't have the added stuff. Sometimes I'll mix cold chocolate milk with a scoop of isolate. Yummy. Now all I need are a few oreo double stuffs...haha

 

[Vixsav]

Isolate gives me less gas fwiw lol. Concentrate is a 'blend' and cheaper than isolate. Its slower digesting so a supposedly better pre-bedtime protein.

I really think its just a matter of getting enough in any form (food or supplement) for your bodyweight and activity level.

I throw a scoop in at breakfast to offset the overnight fast catabolism and maybe another post workout and don't put any more thought into it. The rest comes from food.

 

[sdeeer]

but never to go for enough protein in the supplements as it may cause severe damage to liver, kidney and muscles too

Is that a complete thought?

Are you stating that high protein intakes may cause severe damage to the liver? That is false. Unless you have impaired kidney or liver function to begin with. Protein intakes up to 3.6g/kg of body weight have been tested and found to have no ill effects in healthy individuals.

However, there is no need to take in that much protein from a dietary source. 150 - 170 grams is the upper 'need' that most endurance athletes might 'need' for recovery and maintenance of LBM and recovery.

 

[sdeeer]

Isolate gives me less gas fwiw lol. Concentrate is a 'blend' and cheaper than isolate. Its slower digesting so a supposedly better pre-bedtime protein.

I really think its just a matter of getting enough in any form (food or supplement) for your bodyweight and activity level.

I throw a scoop in at breakfast to offset the overnight fast catabolism and maybe another post workout and don't put any more thought into it. The rest comes from food.

Point one: Isolate will give less gas and bloating if you have some lactate issues.

Point two: It really is a matter of getting enough overall protein in the appropriate dose per unit time. Basically (at least for resistance training) the dose is 20+ grams of 'good' proteins (3.5+ grams of leucine) to 40 grams per meal with 4 - 5 meals per day.

Once MPS is initiated, the muscle is refractory to another protein feeding for about 3-4 hours. So the eat every two hours the many bodybuilders subscribe to appears to be incorrect. Alan Aragon and ....(can't remember) just wrote a review on this topic.

 

[Vixsav]

Other studies have taken two groups, one with 2-3 hour refeeds of 30-40 grams and another with one large feeding per day and found no difference between the nitrogen balance of the two blowing the eat every few hours theory so go figure...

 

[sdeeer]

Regarding milk (MPS / Not recovery per se)

Preliminary cat out of the bag says.......

View attachment 280953

My data is shaping up very similar to this recently published study:

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/A...ance,_Size,_And_Safety_Responses.978 64.aspx

So.....

At least until all of the data are analyzed and the paper is submitted.....

 

[Vixsav]

Lol awesome. I'll see that study and raise you 100 other studies to the contrary. And BTW, dietary fat makes you fatter!

 

[sdeeer]

. And BTW, dietary fat makes you fatter!

You forgot the or or :blush2:.

You are kidding right?

 

[Vixsav]

Yes I'm kidding. Just poking fun at how the thinking of dietary nutrition has changed over time. I was a competitive bodybuilder in the early 90's and am amazed at how competitive bodybuilding diets have changed since that time. We did pure keto at that time to nearly passing out before eating a few green beans to offset, for three months straight. Now carb cycling is all the craze.

I still carry 170 lbs of muscle on my frame at 192lb bodyweight so personally keeping protein high is really not my concern as I'm trying to lower my bodyweight to 180 and will need to lose a bit of muscle to get there.

Lance Armstrong said he would go to bed hungry most nights. Not very conducive to a positive nitrogen balance. I sometimes wonder just how much thought professional endurance athletes put into their daily protein intake, always trying to reduce bodyweight or maintain that magical power to weight balance...

 

[looigi]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but the way I understand it, if you run a caloric deficit, your body will catabolize muscle in addition to body fat, regardless of the composition of your dietary intake. Eating enough protein and exercising the muscles you don't want to lose helps prevent catabolizing those muscles. Your other muscles get catabolized, as evidenced by skinny armed bike racers.

 

[Kerry Irons]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but the way I understand it, if you run a caloric deficit, your body will catabolize muscle in addition to body fat, regardless of the composition of your dietary intake. Eating enough protein and exercising the muscles you don't want to lose helps prevent catabolizing those muscles. Your other muscles get catabolized, as evidenced by skinny armed bike racers.

Yup. Basically the muscles you use will stay "intact" or even grow but muscles you don't use will be thrown on the metabolic fire along with your stored fat.

 

[aclinjury]

Why are you guys taking processed powdered stuff when eating is so much more enjoyalbe and healthy? I've given up on all these lab powder stuff around 10th-11th grade when I was getting bloats and diarrhea, and learned to eat the healthy way ever since.

I will take a Muscle Milk every once in a while to supress my hunger after a long ride if I can't get home soon enough to eat. But other then that, I much rather eat.

 

[evs]

Because for me, when I'm cutting calories, it's hard to get the amounts of protein I want. Hence the high protein content of the whey powder comes in handy. Plus, every once in awhile I'm busy and can't cook or eat a full meal, a quick protein shake hits the spot and I'm good for another few hours. As said above, whey isolate doen't cause bloating ect. Also, I recently learned that the body can only process about 10g of protein per hour. I'll bet just like me you were taking in a huge shake, which probably contributed to your bloating and diarrhea. Now, I only make smaller single scoop/8oz drinks whick still gives me 38g of protein and I feel great instead of a blender full of shake which is wasted becuase my body can't digest it all in a single serving. But that's just me so take it for what its worth. Have a good one....

 

[sdeeer]

Also, I recently learned that the body can only process about 10g of protein per hour.

FALSE

You heard some broscience. Unlearn it....Quick.

BioLayne Video Log 4 - Myths About Protein - YouTube

Not the refs, but he is objective (for the most part).

That has been busted! I have no idea where that myth came from and why it wont die.

There is no evidence that you can only 'process,' digest, absorb, X grams of protein per hour.

Now there is obviously absorption kinetics occurring in the gut, but if you examine the literature, the absorption rate is much greater than 10 g/hour. I'm not sure upper limit.

 

[phoehn9111]

Tell that to my "never say die" college weightlifting pectorals.

 

[evs]

Yo Bro, chillax, haha so he starts off by saying one could digest 200grams of whey protein in a sitting but only 30-40grams would be utilized for metabolic response. wow, thats crazy. I do find it hard to believe you wouldn't be running to the bathroom shortly after ingesting so much protein. If we only utilize 30-40g of protein but ingest and digest more than that, what happens to the extra? I think you would agree that when you say this to most people the implied result is still the same.

My statement was primarily from this article I read :
How Many Grams of Protein Can Body Absorb in One Sitting<O</O

Jul 8, 2011 | By Rachel Nall <O</O
Rachel Nall began writing in 2003. She is a former managing editor for custom health publications, including physician journals. She has written for The Associated Press and Jezebel,Charleston,Chatter and Reach magazines. Nall is currently pursuing her Bachelor of Science in Nursing at the University of Tennessee.
<O</O
Protein is a nutrient you take in from food sources such as red meat, poultry, seafood, beans, lentils and nuts. Your body uses it to build and repair muscle fibers, as well as maintain healthy immune and cardiac function. In recent years, diets such as the Atkins diet have advocated increased protein intake. Manufacturers also have created protein powders you can make into shakes or other drinks after a workout to enhance muscle building. While increased protein intake can be a good thing, you body can only absorb so much protein at one time.

The Body's Usage<O</O


<O</OYour body does not store protein, so you must take in protein each day so the body can use it. Because protein is not stored, it is up to your body, particularly the kidneys, to process proteins and their waste product, known as creatine, and use what it can, then eliminate the rest. This means you can only use so much protein at a time. If you engage in excess supplementation, your efforts in increasing protein intake could be for naught as the excess unused protein then goes to waste and turns into body fat. No magic number exists for how much protein your body can absorb, but some general guidelines can be followed.<O</O
Food Types<O</O
One of the factors that can affect protein digestion is what you are eating because it takes longer for the body to digest a whole protein source, such as chicken, than it does to digest a liquid protein source, such as a whey protein shake. For example, it takes a whey protein shake about one hour and 30 minutes for the body to digest. The rate of whey protein digestion is about 10 g per hour, meaning your body will absorb about 15 grams of whey protein during the time it is digested. A larger meal with protein will take longer for the body to digest, meaning your body may absorb more protein during that time. How much protein is absorbed depends on your body and the type of food eaten, as proteins found in beans are less digestible than whey protein.<O</O
The 30-Gram Rule<O</O
If you are looking for a potential rule of thumb, the 30 g rule might work. It says that at any given meal, you can absorb about 30 g of protein. This calculation could come from the daily protein intake recommendations, which are about 0.4 g of protein per pound of your body weight. If you weighed 150 lbs., this would be about 60 g of protein per day. However, more active individuals eat about 0.8 g of protein per pound of body weight because they need it for muscle growth and maintenance. For a 150 lb. person, this would be about 120 g of protein. If you ate three meals per day and a snack or two, this would spread out to about 30 g of protein per meal and snack. However, this rule is more of an average, not an absolute. Your body might be able to absorb more or potentially less protein. <O</O​