[bigwaves]

I am trying to get a little more rise in a stem and was wondering which stem will give me more height 82 or 84 degrees?

 

[Juanmoretime]

84, the longer the stem the higher the rise will be over the 82.

 

[C-40]

About 4mm more...

height will be produced with an 84 degree, with an average 110mm length. Shorter stem will be a bit less and longer ones a bit more. This assumes the same steeering tube clamp height.

 

[dougn]

82 degree will provide the most height. the greater deviation from 90 degrees......

 

[C-40]

wrong...

82 degree will provide the most height. the greater deviation from 90 degrees......

82 degres is a minus 8 from 90 and and 84 is a minus 6. Minus 6 is HIGHER than a minus 8. A 90 degree is also know as a zero degree and it's higher still.

 

[CNY rider]

Remember also that many if not most road stems can be flipped and put on the bike facing either way........

 

[vitdoc]

more height with 82

If the stem is tilted up you get 8 degrees of elevation with an 82 vs 6 degrees with an 84. If the stem is tilted down everything is reversed. Since most stems are tilted up unless one wants to really be bent down the 82 degree will be very slightly higher than the 84. (but not by much).

 

[C-40]

also wrong...

You guys need to get your terminology straight. If you want to compare flipped stems, then use the correct angle. A flipped 82 is a 98 and a flipped 84 is a 96. The original post asked about an 82 and an 84. Most stems are NOT flipped up. A flipped stem would be extreme rarity on any real race bike.

If you want to be clear when speaking of stem angles, use one of the common standards, as above or specify plus or minus from 90 degrees. MTB guys seem to favor the + or -6 degree rather than 96 or 84 (respectively).

 

[DIRT BOY]

What's a good way to convert these numbers to degrees?

I am use to using the +/- degrees in looking for stem compared to the 84 or 96 numbers system.

Is there any formula to use for converting numbers to degrees and degrees to numbers?

Like on the roadie I use a -8º stem and on the MTB I use either +6º most of the time and -6º if I am racing or depending on the frame I am riding.

Thanks!

 

[C-40]

just add 90..

If you have a -6 stem, adding 90 to it yields 84, which is the same thing. Works for any plus or minus angle.

 

[dougn]

You guys need to get your terminology straight. If you want to compare flipped stems, then use the correct angle. A flipped 82 is a 98 and a flipped 84 is a 96. The original post asked about an 82 and an 84. Most stems are NOT flipped up. A flipped stem would be extreme rarity on any real race bike.

first off i suspect you knew what the person meant
who are you or anyone else to define a convention...and a poor one at that
most stems are flipped up
mine is flipped up and i have a 4.5 inch drop to my handle bars. it all depends on specific frame size, and set-up.

 

[C-40]

I knew what the poster meant...

You guys need to get your terminology straight. If you want to compare flipped stems, then use the correct angle. A flipped 82 is a 98 and a flipped 84 is a 96. The original post asked about an 82 and an 84. Most stems are NOT flipped up. A flipped stem would be extreme rarity on any real race bike.

first off i suspect you knew what the person meant
who are you or anyone else to define a convention...and a poor one at that
most stems are flipped up
mine is flipped up and i have a 4.5 inch drop to my handle bars. it all depends on specific frame size, and set-up.

I assumed the poster knew the standard nomenclature, and answered correctly. You're the one who's confused. I didn't make up the standard, the manufacturers did. All seem to go by this standard, where the angle is measured counterclockwise using either the steering tube centerline as the reference line, or a line perpendicular to the steering tube. The high rise angle would be 98 degree or +8, not 82.

Here's the Deda Newton drawing:

 

[danl1]

I assumed the poster knew the standard nomenclature, and answered correctly. You're the one who's confused. I didn't make up the standard, the manufacturers did. All seem to go by this standard, where the angle is measured counterclockwise using either the steering tube centerline as the reference line, or a line perpendicular to the steering tube. The high rise angle would be 98 degree or +8, not 82.

Here's the Deda Newton drawing:

And yet they don't seem to refer to it as a 98, nor do they have a separate catalog listing for a 98.

The "98" nomenclature necessary for your argument is anything but a standard, though some few folks do refer to it in that manner. For every one that does call it a 98, "82 with reverse assembly" or similar would be used by a few thousand, including Deda.

http://www.dedaelementi.com/dettaglio.asp?articolo=121

The correct answer (already given by the folks that "don't know their nomenclature") is that the 82 gives more height if flipped up/reversed, the 84 if flipped down. That answers the question without making any assumptions as to the OP's intent WRT the ambiguity. It also avoids looking like a putz for arguing a point that your own reference refutes.

At least we're past the quill-stem days, where the angle was often listed as rise from horizontal, assuming a 'standard' HTA, even though each manufacturer had a different idea of 'standard.' For example, a stem that today we would call a -17 or a 73 would be called a 0 degree rise, give or take a degree. This is the reason for the current "degrees from parallel to steerer" (eg 84 degrees) road standard. Back when the transition to threadless was happening, there was considerable confusion as to whether "6 degree stem" meant six degrees off of horizontal or off of the steerer, especially since the standards converge at about that point. Since MTB's were usually pointed up (and there was more MTB threadless than road threadless at the time) the chances for confusion were plentiful. Changing to the new nomenclature resolved one ambiguity, but created another. Fortunately, this one can be worked out independently, while the other could not.

 

[divve]

first off i suspect you knew what the person meant
who are you or anyone else to define a convention...and a poor one at that
most stems are flipped up
mine is flipped up and i have a 4.5 inch drop to my handle bars. it all depends on specific frame size, and set-up.

So....when people talk about a 73 deg. seat tube it may also be 107 deg. because you ride your bike backward?

 

[LBK]

And yet they don't seem to refer to it as a 98, nor do they have a separate catalog listing for a 98.

The "98" nomenclature necessary for your argument is anything but a standard, though some few folks do refer to it in that manner. For every one that does call it a 98, "82 with reverse assembly" or similar would be used by a few thousand, including Deda.

http://www.dedaelementi.com/dettaglio.asp?articolo=121

The correct answer (already given by the folks that "don't know their nomenclature") is that the 82 gives more height if flipped up/reversed, the 84 if flipped down. That answers the question without making any assumptions as to the OP's intent WRT the ambiguity. It also avoids looking like a putz for arguing a point that your own reference refutes.

At least we're past the quill-stem days, where the angle was often listed as rise from horizontal, assuming a 'standard' HTA, even though each manufacturer had a different idea of 'standard.' For example, a stem that today we would call a -17 or a 73 would be called a 0 degree rise, give or take a degree. This is the reason for the current "degrees from parallel to steerer" (eg 84 degrees) road standard. Back when the transition to threadless was happening, there was considerable confusion as to whether "6 degree stem" meant six degrees off of horizontal or off of the steerer, especially since the standards converge at about that point. Since MTB's were usually pointed up (and there was more MTB threadless than road threadless at the time) the chances for confusion were plentiful. Changing to the new nomenclature resolved one ambiguity, but created another. Fortunately, this one can be worked out independently, while the other could not.

Sorry dude, C-40 is correct on this one. It's either 82 or 98.

 

[C-40]

what crap..

The use of 84/96 or 82/98 makes perfect sense and it's perfectly clear. Both angles use the same reference line and direction for the angle measurement. The original poster said nothing about the stem being flipped or being installed in a "reverse" direction. If he had, then the answer would obviously have been just the opposite.

The assumption that the original poster wanted to compare flipped or reversed stems makes no sense at all. The OP says NOTHING about flipping or reversing, so you are just dead wrong. The more of this baloney you post, the lower your credibilty.

 

[danl1]

Sorry dude, C-40 is correct on this one. It's either 82 or 98.

I've quoted deda as "86 reversed" previously.

Here's FSA at +-6: http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=43&pid=88

Bontrager: http://www.bontrager.com/Road/Components/Stems/5745.php

Specialized: http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=14919

Ritchey: http://ritcheylogic.com/web/Ritchey...roduct/roadcomp/stems/RoadStems_WCS4Axis.html

Salsa: (Here's one for you guys)
http://www.salsacycles.com/comps_stems.html

Syntace:
http://www.syntace.com/index.cfm?pid=3&pk=379

Easton:
http://www.eastonbike.com/PRODUCTS/STEMS/stem_road_ec70_'06.html

Oval Concepts:
http://www.ovalconcepts.com/productsDetails.php?idProdotti=43&idProd1=2

I've found one so far that lists a number greater than 90deg. One for ten doesn't make a standard.

 

[dougn]

actually frame angles do seem to follow convention..... but not completely

 

[Pepe]

height will be produced with an 84 degree, with an average 110mm length. Shorter stem will be a bit less and longer ones a bit more. This assumes the same steeering tube clamp height.

Trigonometry doesn't Lie. I built a spreadsheet last year because I was changing out stems and wanted to compute the differential in height with various alternatives, and solved for rise using high school trig. I plugged in an 11cm stem on a 73 degree head tube and it produces .38cm (about 4mm) more height with an 84 vs. an 82. If you go to a 14mm, it's about 5mm more rise. C-40 is right, and I have the math to prove it.

 

[dougn]

let's face it...I'm smarter than all of you ...except those of you that agree with me.