Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,561 Posts
Bocephus Jones said:
You repubs are a hoot! http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/02/15/whites.only.ap/index.html

And note the Young Republican student that created the scholarship got 5k scholarship already because he was Puerto Rican.
So is he a hypocrite for taking money from a source that he opposes or a hero for showing that he opposes a policy despite the fact that it benefits him?

They really should do away with race as a factor and just base scholarships on merit and need. Minorities should still be "over-represented" because they generally are economically worse off and therefore more needy.
 

·
The web is a MUT
Joined
·
1,373 Posts
carefull with that broad paintbrush you're flailing there sir

Mattera, who is of Puerto Rican descent, is himself a recipient of a $5,000 scholarship open only to a minority group.

"No matter what my ethnicity is, I'm making a statement that scholarships should be given out based on merit and need," Mattera told the Providence Journal.
What exactly is your point in posting this? A troll, a flame, a lame baiting attempt? Don't know, but I do know that there is merit to their claim that scholarships should be based on need and merit, and not on skin tones or cultural heritage. Not saying that I agree with their methods, and not saying anything about my own cultural heritage, just that I'm still inching along towards an undergraduate degree paying my own way for many many years on a part time basis when those with more financial means and more family wealth have passed me by and received many financial benefits not open to me. Not sour grapes, just a pure fact of the circumstances.

So, have a nice day, and try again soon. Perhaps next time you can add a little more dialog to your comments.
Thank you for your effort. Take the lead, I'll just drift back into the pack now.
Bye.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
treebound said:
What exactly is your point in posting this? A troll, a flame, a lame baiting attempt? Don't know, but I do know that there is merit to their claim that scholarships should be based on need and merit, and not on skin tones or cultural heritage. Not saying that I agree with their methods, and not saying anything about my own cultural heritage, just that I'm still inching along towards an undergraduate degree paying my own way for many many years on a part time basis when those with more financial means and more family wealth have passed me by and received many financial benefits not open to me. Not sour grapes, just a pure fact of the circumstances.

So, have a nice day, and try again soon. Perhaps next time you can add a little more dialog to your comments.
Thank you for your effort. Take the lead, I'll just drift back into the pack now.
Bye.
Does there have to be a point in posting to Non-Cycling? Anyway if you want my opinion I don't think there should be race-based scholarships. Scholarships should be based on need and ability in my opinion. I just thought it was kinda amusing that the Young Republican student who started this obvious attempt at baiting those who would condone race-based scholarships is a beneficiary of such scholarships himself. Good luck on getting through school.
 

·
gazing from the shadows
Joined
·
27,247 Posts
Who are any of you to tell me what to do with my money?

There are scholarships devoted to all sorts of things. Irish, left handed, bald, you name it.

What is often overlooked in this controversy is that the scholarships in question are funded with PRIVATE dollars, and the criteria for them are set up by the people who GIVE THE MONEY. I know of no state sponsored/funded scholarships that exclude people based on race.

I also have not researched this, so I could very well be wrong. Feel free to provide evidence of state funded race based scholarships if you are so inclined.

Hey, if people want to go for class based affirmative action, I am all for that. Class does matter. But if some private individual wants to set up a scholarship to support whites, or greens, or dreadlocked republicans, more power to them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,561 Posts
I agree with your sentiment. Although, I have always assumed that many of these scholarships were in fact public money because they seem to be offered by the institutions or States themselves. But I don't know for sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
dr hoo said:
There are scholarships devoted to all sorts of things. Irish, left handed, bald, you name it.

What is often overlooked in this controversy is that the scholarships in question are funded with PRIVATE dollars, and the criteria for them are set up by the people who GIVE THE MONEY. I know of no state sponsored/funded scholarships that exclude people based on race.

I also have not researched this, so I could very well be wrong. Feel free to provide evidence of state funded race based scholarships if you are so inclined.

Hey, if people want to go for class based affirmative action, I am all for that. Class does matter. But if some private individual wants to set up a scholarship to support whites, or greens, or dreadlocked republicans, more power to them.
http://www.finaid.org/educators/affirmativeaction.phtml

looks like only a handful of states have passed legislation barring state funded race-based scholarships. I don't have a problem with this if it is paid for with private funds but Federally or state mandated race-based scholarships seem to still exist.
 

·
gazing from the shadows
Joined
·
27,247 Posts
Your link does not show what you claim it shows.

Bocephus Jones said:
http://www.finaid.org/educators/affirmativeaction.phtml

looks like only a handful of states have passed legislation barring state funded race-based scholarships. I don't have a problem with this if it is paid for with private funds but Federally or state mandated race-based scholarships seem to still exist.
Race can be used in affirmative action, as one of many characteristics, and affirmative action can result in financial aid. However, that does NOT mean that said financial aid is NOT AVAILABLE to white students.

Your link shows that some states do not allow single race based scholarships, though there are some work arounds for that. However, the same link shows...

"Race-based Scholarships Funded by Private Donors

There is also some debate about whether schools may administer minority scholarships that are funded by private donors. Rice University, for example, has rejected donations from alumni who sought to place racial restrictions on scholarship funds. On the other hand, there is no problem with purely private minority scholarships such as the Gates Millenium Scholarship Fund and the United ***** College Fund. The problem arises when the college has a role in the selection of recipients or provides resources for the raising of funds.

If the private donor specifies a selection method that provides the school with little or no room for subjective judgment, such as requiring the minority scholarship to be awarded to the most academically talented minority student who demonstrates financial need, such an award would likely be constitutional. "


Note, Rice won't ADMINISTER the scholarships, but they sure will take the checks!

Maybe I missed something, but nowhere in that link did I see an example of a state funded scholarship that is available to minorities that is not ALSO available to whites. Feel free to correct me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Maybe I missed something, but nowhere in that link did I see an example of a state funded scholarship that is available to minorities that is not ALSO available to whites. Feel free to correct me.
You're in the college business aren't you? Since it appears that the letter of the law does not make affirmative action scholarships "unavailable" to non-minorities, how often (if ever) does a non-minority candidate actually receive such a scholarship? I'd guess rarely to never though I'm just guessing here. I don't have any statistics to back that up. If that is the case then we're just talking legal semantics here.
 

·
gazing from the shadows
Joined
·
27,247 Posts
I'm not in financial aid, but one example...

... is the McNair program.

"Named to honor the African-American astronaut who perished in the Challenger explosion, this TRIO program assists eligible low-income, first-generation students to prepare for and enter graduate programs leading to the Ph. D. Each year at UW-Eau Claire ten to twelve new undergraduate McNair Scholars embark upon two years of intensive mentoring, specialized curricular and co-curricular offerings, collaborative research, and paid internships, all of which groom these candidates for graduate school. Participants include academically talented low-income, first-generation students and students from groups traditionally underrepresented in Ph. D. programs. "

(that last part is code for "minorities", fyi)

White folk can qualify, and at my school at least, white people get the scholarships. In fact, all of our current seniors with mcnair funding are white.

Here is some pictures from another school where most are white:

http://www.uwrf.edu/academic-success/mcnair/Seniors 2002-03.html

A quick search shows other schools also have some white students, even when most are minority. For example, university of Washington has a couple. (not all schools have pictures, but some do).

So, it looks like your question "how often (if ever) does a non-minority candidate actually receive such a scholarship", at least for this particular NATION WIDE program is: quite often.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,561 Posts
I'm not that surprised by that at the PhD level. How many American blacks even attempt to pursue PhDs? I would bet relatively speaking not very many, add to that that in many fields even white Americans are a minority and it only makes sense to give out those scholarships to whoever is qualified.

In my lab, which isn't even a hard science field like physics or chemistry or engineering where I think the phenomenon is even more pronounced I'm in the definite minority as a white american male.

My lab:
1 Chinese Woman
2 Indian Males
1 Tawainese Male
1 Indian Female
1 African (Botswana) Male
1 White American Male (me)

PhD programs in the sciences seem to be dominated by foriegn Indians and Asians, but that's my personal obsevation and I could be wrong.
 

·
gazing from the shadows
Joined
·
27,247 Posts
McNair is to PREP for grad school, not for those in grad school.

The McNair program, at least the one I am familiar with and the one's linked to are for undergraduates. It is designed to get people into grad schools to pursue their Ph.D.s

There may be some grad support in the larger McNair program, but I was just refering to the undergrad portion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,561 Posts
dr hoo said:
The McNair program, at least the one I am familiar with and the one's linked to are for undergraduates. It is designed to get people into grad schools to pursue their Ph.D.s

There may be some grad support in the larger McNair program, but I was just refering to the undergrad portion.
Nonetheless, you still wouldn't apply for it unless you intended to pursue a PhD which I'm guessing is a pretty rare phenomenon among American minority students, and even American non-minority students if you look at the relatively large percentages of foriegners who appear to dominate grad programs (or at least the hard sciences).
 

·
Seeking shades of grey
Joined
·
1,804 Posts
A person is free to give money to anyone for whatever reason, no matter how capricious. I find it interesting that this group has purchased national attention for only $50. There must be an entrepreneur among the ranks. ;)

The bigger issue they will face relates to definitions. What is white? Race is pretty much a collective figment of imagination. There are plenty of people on the borderline.

On a tangentially related note, I read an interesting article about a person applying for a military position who refused to identify his race. The matter went on for years. He contended that he needed some objective standard by which to select a race for himself and the military had not provided any explanation of what race means. He eventually filled in "mongrel" for his race, much to the discontent of the bean counters.

I frequently select the "other" box and write in "human" for my race.
 

·
gazing from the shadows
Joined
·
27,247 Posts
our program is very proactive.

On my campus, we have a director that pushes this program and tries to actively recruit qualified students for it. Many people don't understand grad school. I can't count the number of students who have said they would like to go, but can't afford it. They don't understand that most doctoral programs PAY for you to attend.

Every semester we get a list of majors who qualify, and all those people get contacted with details of the program. Affirmative action is taken, in other words, to get the qualified people to participate.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top