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Discussion Starter #1
So who makes the best alloy/carbon bike?(carbon seatstays and/or chainstays etc.), Im trying to find a a frame for a new build up. Its gonna be kinda my all around race rig(crits and road races). Thoughts and opinons welcome.
 

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classiquesklassieker
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Cyfac?

hambinator said:
So who makes the best alloy/carbon bike?(carbon seatstays and/or chainstays etc.), Im trying to find a a frame for a new build up. Its gonna be kinda my all around race rig(crits and road races). Thoughts and opinons welcome.
Cyfac? http://www.veloeuropa.com/

You give so little hint as to your criterion for what is "best".
 

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Devoid of all flim-flam
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Cannondale Six/13. I haven't ridden many combo bikes, but of the ones I've ridden it's the Cannondale Six/13 that's impressed me the most. All those years supplying the SAECO and Lampre teams has paid off. Poised. Balanced. Light. Fast.
 

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Mapei Roida said:
Cannondale Six/13. I haven't ridden many combo bikes, but of the ones I've ridden it's the Cannondale Six/13 that's impressed me the most. All those years supplying the SAECO and Lampre teams has paid off. Poised. Balanced. Light. Fast.

Hands Down the 6/13. I have a record 04 version and it's awesome. Red Outline over the carbon top tube. Very suttle and completely beautiful. Fast comftorable stiff and light what else is there. Oh ya you can get a closeout 05 model frame for $1400. Ya it's different than the 06 model but hey it's more carbon.
 

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Oxymoron?

hambinator said:
So who makes the best alloy/carbon bike?(carbon seatstays and/or chainstays etc.).
Some would contend that these kinds of bikes actually weigh more, offer an additional failure point at the material junction, and don't offer any performance benefits compared to frames of "all one material." Beyond that, there are a number of these frames available to satisfy the market demand. Chosing "the best" of anything is pretty difficult.
 

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The Gimlet Eye
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hambinator said:
So who makes the best alloy/carbon bike?(carbon seatstays and/or chainstays etc.), Im trying to find a a frame for a new build up. Its gonna be kinda my all around race rig(crits and road races). Thoughts and opinons welcome.
You can't go wrong with a KHS Flite 2000. Several folks here have them without complaint.
 

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The Gimlet Eye
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asawlrider123456789 said:
I have a record 04 version and it's awesome.
Wow! Between your CR1, your Team soloist and your six13 you have quite the thoroughbred stable there. Post some pics of those beautys!
 

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Hard to say who makes the best is. There are alot of great frame makers out there. I like Guerciotti, Rossin, Merckx, DeRosa, Casati. Who the best is?? Is going to be subjective. I was talking to a friend last night and he agreed that everybody out there had either a Trek or Cannondale (not that they are bad bikes) but if you are going to spend the money; get something that inspires passion. He just picked up a Pegoretti. I'm looking to get either another Guerciotti or Casati later this year.
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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Pretty bold statement....

Kerry Irons said:
....., and don't offer any performance benefits compared to frames of "all one material." .
What do you base this on?

Len
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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Well as long as your basing it on something real!

Kerry Irons said:
I base it on the inverse of the unsubstantiated claims that it does make a big difference. Simple as that :)
Kerry:

You give lot's of good advice, & people read what you write.

On this issue, you have nothing but an opinion based on no real experience....at least admit that it isn't based on anything experiential. I have an opinion, based on real riding experience.

I have ridden a mixed material bike and it is significantly different and (as I've said before) baased on my own comparisons in as equal a comparison as I think is possible), it does ride better in detectable ways.

You choose not to believe this seemingly because you don't want to (or you think I'm making it up). That's fine, but don't represent it for more than it is. You really don't know.



You can come ride it anytime you like.

Len
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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A little more thought....

Kerry:

-I told you that I have a Serotta Ottrott ST and a Serotta Legend Ti in almost the exact same geometry

-I told you that I bought the Ottrott for less than I paid for the Legend

-I told you that Kelly at Serotta, the designer, told me that the bikes were built for someone my weight and my normal riding and were built in all respects similarly.

-He believed that they were as close as two different Material bikes could be

-I told you that I have ridden these bikes back to back for a couple of months over the same roads on the same days comparing the rides

-Based on this I told you that I could feel the difference in the rides. The Ottrott was at once smoother and more comfotable while also being more responsive to pedaling input.

You choose to ignore this and chalk it up to bullshit.

I've been riding for 30 years and can feel the difference between a good bike & a better bike....you don't believe this.

Instead you chalk it up to unsubstantiated claims. I'm not sure why this is such a bug for you, but i have to call BS.

How about your unsubstantiated opinion? At least call it what it is.

Len



 

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Defender of Freedom...
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Orbea Lobular 100

Orbea makes and excellent Alu/Carbon mix. Nice nice ridding bike.

+1 on carbon stay comfort. IME my bikes with carbon stays do indeed offer a substantial increase in comfort. Only time will tell on durabilty (but I'm not worried :)

JR
 

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KHS Flite... I second that vote.

covenant said:
You can't go wrong with a KHS Flite 2000. Several folks here have them without complaint.
Flite 2000 is worthy of "putting on the list to check out" as a good all around race frame.
ride on,
joe mudd
 

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Len J said:
Kerry:

-I told you that I have a Serotta Ottrott ST and a Serotta Legend Ti in almost the exact same geometry

-I told you that I bought the Ottrott for less than I paid for the Legend

-I told you that Kelly at Serotta, the designer, told me that the bikes were built for someone my weight and my normal riding and were built in all respects similarly.

-He believed that they were as close as two different Material bikes could be

-I told you that I have ridden these bikes back to back for a couple of months over the same roads on the same days comparing the rides

-Based on this I told you that I could feel the difference in the rides. The Ottrott was at once smoother and more comfotable while also being more responsive to pedaling input.

You choose to ignore this and chalk it up to bullshit.

I've been riding for 30 years and can feel the difference between a good bike & a better bike....you don't believe this.

Instead you chalk it up to unsubstantiated claims. I'm not sure why this is such a bug for you, but i have to call BS.

How about your unsubstantiated opinion? At least call it what it is.

Len



In a conversation with Dario Pegoretti a few years ago, the subject of carbon stays as well as sloping top tubes came up.

Dario, who was at the time involved with Dedacciai developing tubesets for them, stated that he did not see any benefit to the carbon stay design. His reasoning was that he believed that it was a short cut to tempering the ride of alloy frames. His arguement was that you could build a frame that was as light, as strong and as comfortable by taking a little trouble to design the stays correctly.

It's interesting that Litespeed have dropped carbon stays, as have colnago from their steel & Ti offerings. One cannot wonder how much of this is marketing hype on the vast majority of frames.

Your Serotta is another matter. On that level of cost of frame it is possible to push the envelope and gain a benefit. But most builders out there are not able to do that, as they have cost constraints.

As far as your response to Kerry's comments are concerned, read the whole of the posts. They are both reasonable responses, with the second being a bit of a joke I thought.

Some would contend that these kinds of bikes actually weigh more, offer an additional failure point at the material junction, and don't offer any performance benefits compared to frames of "all one material." Beyond that, there are a number of these frames available to satisfy the market demand. Chosing "the best" of anything is pretty difficult.

I base it on the inverse of the unsubstantiated claims that it does make a big difference. Simple as that
Mind you, I've yet to meet a Serotta owner who wasn't "wound a bit tight"!
 

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Casati

I've owned and ridden bikes by Merckx, Pinarello, De Rosa, Concorde, Serotta, Argon 18, and Daccordi (not to mention Specialized, although I try not to admit that too often), and all I can say is that nothing comes close to a Casati. My Casati is a work of art and I genuinely get excited when I get to ride it. Whether a Casati is for you or not is not for me to determine. Suffice to say though that I enjoy mine.
 

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ultimobici said:
In a conversation with Dario Pegoretti a few years ago, the subject of carbon stays as well as sloping top tubes came up.

Dario, who was at the time involved with Dedacciai developing tubesets for them, stated that he did not see any benefit to the carbon stay design. His reasoning was that he believed that it was a short cut to tempering the ride of alloy frames. His arguement was that you could build a frame that was as light, as strong and as comfortable by taking a little trouble to design the stays correctly.

It's interesting that Litespeed have dropped carbon stays, as have colnago from their steel & Ti offerings. One cannot wonder how much of this is marketing hype on the vast majority of frames.

!
thanks for that, pretty interesting... But i think the examples you give are a bit unfair. The OP is all about alloy(alu)/carbon mix, and not ti or steel mix. I would not buy either of the other two b/c it totally defeats the purpose of having that "longlife" material, either steel or ti.

Ok this is purely opinion w/ little experience b/w frames, but it would seem to me that if alu frames are "harsh" and carbon are "comfortable" (by and large by opinion or marketing), it makes sense to have a carbon rear triangle on an alu frame... i dont think seats stays alone would do a whole lot, but i really dont see how an all carbon frame would all of a sudden create an uber comfortable bike, with the rear carbon triangle contributing little or nothing at all. On the contrary, it would make more sense if the situation was reversed..

FWIW, i have an alloy frame with carbon seat stay only and "semi-carbon fork".. so i ain't saying this to make myself feel better.

my 2.
 

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To answer the OP's question... i see a lot of pros here and abroad on decathlon frames... they use the dedacciai tubing w/ full carbon rear triangle... I think shopping for alloy frames is a bit easier since you only really have to look for a standardised tubeset, i'm on columbus myself. Apart from that, makers really only differ in welds, and well, most companies have a fanatstic frame guarantee and good customer support, so you're covered, you dont have to sift thru all the marketing hype behind carbon manufacturers for example, or for that matter, alloy frame makers that extoll the virtues of *their* tubeset ahead of all else.

If you stick to a big and popular brand with a history of customer support w/ columbus or dedacciai tubing and a good warantee you should be ok. (Might like to ask the LBS which company looks after their clients as this can vary from place to place, eg country, state, region etc..) Look out for some manufacturers that bundle their frames with decent full carbon forks as opposed to no name gear with alloy steerer and such though.

in the end i think these kind of frames will serve you very well for part time racing purposes, lets face it, all but the most expensive carbon frames really aren't that light and most are pretty spendy.

http://www.decathloncycle.com/
 
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