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They are American sponsored, they ride great bikes, I love most of their riders (especially Stewey O'Grady), but I find myself cheering against them.

I can't get past the fact that Riis is a huge cheat. I guess you could say that everyone doped back in the '90s (or even today for that matter), but he blatantly cheated to win the Tour in '96. To make matters worse for me is that he beat one of the classiest riders ever in Miguel Indurain.

Oh and don't forget that Kim Anderson (director sportif for CSC) got banned for doping in the '80s when he was teammates on La Vie Claire with a certain Greg Lemond.

I guess Dave Stoller was right in the movie "Breaking Away" when he says, "Everyone cheats, I just didn't know it."
 

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Except, um, they're not focusing on one man any more.
What is that adage about a house divided?
 

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I feel the same way (they are, by the way, technically a Danish team because that's where Riis has them registered. CSC also has operations in Denmark).

Anyhow, CSC is constantly stacked with great riders and ride probably some of the best equipment in the peloton. However, with all of this, they have won exactly one GT under Riis's direction if I'm not mistaken. They've had success in the classics, but I don't think Riis is behind the wheel of the team car for those. IMO, Riis, with so much at his disposal, has done remarkably little. Yeah, he had some podiums, but let's face it, that team is built to WIN, not just podium, much the same way the Yankees are supposedly built to win the World Series every year, and not just make the first or second round of the playoffs. When you look at what they have and what their goals are, they have underachieved magnificently under Riis. Add that to the fact that he's a confirmed cheat.
 

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foggypeake said:
They are American sponsored, they ride great bikes, I love most of their riders (especially Stewey O'Grady), but I find mys
Not for long, sponsorship ends this season, and goes to Danish based Saxobank instead.

Anyway, I think that they at least are more clean than so many others, and having a former champion as Riis as their manager makes for some very interesting races, and a well-developed use of team tactics- and planning.
 

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ziggurat22 said:
I feel the same way (they are, by the way, technically a Danish team because that's where Riis has them registered. CSC also has operations in Denmark).

Anyhow, CSC is constantly stacked with great riders and ride probably some of the best equipment in the peloton. However, with all of this, they have won exactly one GT under Riis's direction if I'm not mistaken. They've had success in the classics, but I don't think Riis is behind the wheel of the team car for those. IMO, Riis, with so much at his disposal, has done remarkably little. Yeah, he had some podiums, but let's face it, that team is built to WIN, not just podium, much the same way the Yankees are supposedly built to win the World Series every year, and not just make the first or second round of the playoffs. When you look at what they have and what their goals are, they have underachieved magnificently under Riis. Add that to the fact that he's a confirmed cheat.
Quickstep has been a better classics team (although CSC's 5 classics wins is pretty good) and USPS/Discovery was a better GT team, but otherwise what team has better results than CSC?
 

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I kind of admire Riis for coming out and saying he doped when there was absolutely no pressure on him to do so. I think it is a classy act. It helps clear the air, and helps cycling try to move on to a new age. With it being blatantly obvious that most of the top competitors over the past 15 or so years have used performance enhancing drugs, I find Riis' act a lot classier than that of Armstrong and Landis. Yeah they doped. But so did a lot of people. It was that kind of culture, as is in many endurance sports still today.

From what I've seen he's built a tight team which is probably one of the least likely ones to secretly use drugs. It's nice to see some awesome riders sacrifice themselves for the team. They have awesome spirit and are embodiement of what cycling should be about moving forward. And if that was all they got from all the sponsorship money they have, I think they have done well.
 

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foggypeake said:
They are American sponsored, they ride great bikes, I love most of their riders (especially Stewey O'Grady), but I find myself cheering against them.
His name is Stuart O'Grady. Be happy about that they aren't sponsored by an American firm next season so you won't have to feel any patriotic need to cheer them.

foggypeake said:
I can't get past the fact that Riis is a huge cheat. I guess you could say that everyone doped back in the '90s (or even today for that matter), but he blatantly cheated to win the Tour in '96. To make matters worse for me is that he beat one of the classiest riders ever in Miguel Indurain.
The difference between Riis and any other rider with palmares from that period is that Riis actually admitted it. The peleton (and UCI) are chock full of former riders that doped. They may lie about it, but they still doped.

The lying dopers are much, much dangerous for the cycling sport than riders/DS's/team owners who admitted to use the drug. The liars still claim that they didn't use dope, and the only problem about doping is that people talk too much about.

Riis on the other hand has sought assistance from a really bright anti-doping guy to implement the best anti-doping scheme in the peleton. It may not be perfect but it is better than nothing (which is what most other teams are doing).

BTW, why on earth do you believe Miguel Indurain was clean? Because he never tested positive like Contador, Armstrong, Riis? Chances are Miguel Indurain was as doped as any other TdF winner from when the Epo/blood doping epoch started.

foggypeake said:
Oh and don't forget that Kim Anderson (director sportif for CSC) got banned for doping in the '80s when he was teammates on La Vie Claire with a certain Greg Lemond.
Try to find a team without ex-dopers in it. Some of them got caught, the vast majority didn't. Any DS who is also an ex rider with some palmares is extremely likely to have doped in the past.


foggypeake said:
I guess Dave Stoller was right in the movie "Breaking Away" when he says, "Everyone cheats, I just didn't know it."
I do think that you know very little about doping in the peleton; you single out team CSC-SB since Riis admitted he used Epo 12 years ago, but who else do you cheer then? Who do think is clean? What teams try to combat doping? Who else has a shady past? What did you know about team "Saunier Duval-Scott" before the tour, did you cheer Ricco?


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foggypeake said:
I can't get past the fact that Riis is a huge cheat. I guess you could say that everyone doped back in the '90s (or even today for that matter), but he blatantly cheated to win the Tour in '96. To make matters worse for me is that he beat one of the classiest riders ever in Miguel Indurain.
Are you implying that Indurain didn't inject, or merely saying that he was a classy guy?

I am with you in the sense that I like a lot of the team members but am not pulling for CSC in this tour. Cadel Evans, that prickly, touchy, nervous, untelegenic raw nerve of a guy, has won me over.
 

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harlond said:
Quickstep has been a better classics team (although CSC's 5 classics wins is pretty good) and USPS/Discovery was a better GT team, but otherwise what team has better results than CSC?
I'll be clear: They are certainly a top team, no question. I just feel with their budget, resources, and personnel, you would expect them to be more dominant, certainly more than one GT win. I'm basically looking at results relative to things like team budget, payroll, etc.

Which team has had better results? Based on GT's alone, Astana. Caisse D'Epargne has had pretty comparable results with maybe not as big as a budget as CSC (1 GT, and - to my knowledge - 3 classics wins with Valverde).
 
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