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Can anyone tell me why road bike rear drop out seem to be universally vertical now, rather than sloping. In my opinion the older design is less chunky and more graceful and also provides scope for some adjustment. I don't see any benefit to vertical dropouts. Maybe the argument is for a more positive location of the rear axle, but I've never had a wheel shift in sloping drop outs when correctly mounted.
 

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vertical dropouts allow the manufacturer to spec external cam quick releases, which don't hold a wheel tight enough to prevent it from slipping on a horizontal dropout.

External cam quick releases are just another "innovation" in modern cycling that actually works worse than what it's replacing, but costs the manufacturer less to make AND allow them to sell more aftermarket parts.

Threadless headsets, black components, 31.8 handlebars, octa-link, external BBs, it's all the same crap.
 

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CurbDestroyer said:
While they don't make for the quickest wheel changes. These are a great idea. Go gears, fixie, Boltone, or quick release. I'm building my next road bike with these.
I've got a klein with rear-facing drop-outs- Man, are wheel changes a pain in the @$$...

I'm curious why you'd use those instead of standard horizontal dropouts- What is the advantage? Not being a d!ck, just curious...

I had horizontal dropouts on my fixie and the wheel never slipped... Of course, they had to be bolted on...
 

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greg75 said:
Can anyone tell me why road bike rear drop out seem to be universally vertical now, rather than sloping. In my opinion the older design is less chunky and more graceful and also provides scope for some adjustment. I don't see any benefit to vertical dropouts. Maybe the argument is for a more positive location of the rear axle, but I've never had a wheel shift in sloping drop outs when correctly mounted.
Adjustment for what? So you can also have the pleasure of re-adjusting your brake pads? Vertical is lighter with a positive placement. - TF
 

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TurboTurtle said:
Adjustment for what? So you can also have the pleasure of re-adjusting your brake pads? Vertical is lighter with a positive placement. - TF
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that the slight slope in the horizontal dropout corrected for brake pad location- basically kept them in the same spot.

Either way, that's never been an issue on any of my horizontal dropout bikes...

The rearward adjustment coupled with an older frame design means you can fit bigger tires when you want to, but then close everything back up when you wanna run the skinny tires. At least in theory...
 

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Doggity said:
Threadless headsets, black components, 31.8 handlebars, octa-link, external BBs, it's all the same crap. Truly! Buck fifty, I like your style!
I'm all for innovation... I just want the innovations to benefit me, not the manufacturer... I'm kinda stupid like that.
 

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buck-50 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that the slight slope in the horizontal dropout corrected for brake pad location- basically kept them in the same spot.

Either way, that's never been an issue on any of my horizontal dropout bikes...

The rearward adjustment coupled with an older frame design means you can fit bigger tires when you want to, but then close everything back up when you wanna run the skinny tires. At least in theory...
I think that it was a very small percentage that had slanted drop outs as an interum solution.

It's never been an issue because you don't adjust them. Why would you?

The tire size/diameter is even more limited by having to go between the seat tube and the front of the horizontal drop out unless you let the air out. What limits tire size is the frame design.

TF
 

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buck-50 said:
I've got a klein with rear-facing drop-outs- Man, are wheel changes a pain in the @$$...

I'm curious why you'd use those instead of standard horizontal dropouts- What is the advantage? Not being a d!ck, just curious...

I had horizontal dropouts on my fixie and the wheel never slipped... Of course, they had to be bolted on...
I was going to mention the klien dropouts, but they are not long enough to be considered horizontal. Yep, changes are a pain in the @$$ if you don't want to get dirty. even if you get dirty they still are a pain.

I like the Breezer style dropouts.

For me it's easier to miter the stay ends for a breezer style dropout rather than to slot them for a conventional horizontal.

I think Cervelo also uses a rear entry horizonal on it's P2 and P3 TT frames.

I know some people that have problems with their rear wheel slipping and go bolt on for fixie. I've experience this before, but I found Shimano skewers to be the best (Who knew one day I'd praise Shimano)

Also . . . and I don't know if this makes a difference. . . . but the deraileurs mounting bolt sits below and behind the rear wheel axel by some dimension . . . I don't kow what that is. When the wheel is all the way forward in the rear entry horizontal I have pictured, it's the same as a verticle dropout.
 

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buck-50 said:
I'm all for innovation... I just want the innovations to benefit me, not the manufacturer... I'm kinda stupid like that.
Hey Buck-50 . . . you forgot the move to 1-1/8" headtubes . . . we need that extra 1/8"! . . . . I've been building my own frame from 4130. 1-1/4 has the perfect ID for 1" headset cups. The 4130 tubing for the perfect size 1-1/8" headset cup doesn't exist. :mad:
you see the next step up from 1-1/4 is 1-3/8 . . . . you need 1-5/16 unless you want a 2Lbs. headtube. or you want to risk something like .6 thickness for headset cups.
 

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CurbDestroyer said:
Hey Buck-50 . . . you forgot the move to 1-1/8" headtubes . . . we need that extra 1/8"! . . . . I've been building my own frame from 4130. 1-1/4 has the perfect ID for 1" headset cups. The 4130 tubing for the perfect size 1-1/8" headset cup doesn't exist. :mad:
you see the next step up from 1-1/4 is 1-3/8 . . . . you need 1-5/16 unless you want a 2Lbs. headtube. or you want to risk something like .6 thickness for headset cups.
Hey, don't forget the new madones, with a 1-1/8" top and a 1-1/4" bottom headset... And a proprietary BB...

Seems like most of the innovations lately have really been in the interest of consolidating standards between road and mountain parts... I would not be surprised if road dropout spacing increased to 135 to accomodate the new 11 speed systems...
 

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buck-50 said:
Hey, don't forget the new madones, with a 1-1/8" top and a 1-1/4" bottom headset... And a proprietary BB...

Seems like most of the innovations lately have really been in the interest of consolidating standards between road and mountain parts... I would not be surprised if road dropout spacing increased to 135 to accomodate the new 11 speed systems...
I had great praise for Colnago holding out for as long as they did with 1" headsets.

I don't really value a headset performance very much. I ride a headset right now that some people reguard as an indexing headset. People come into the shop and when their headsets start to index they will replace them . . . and I'll take them. I think that indexing bother people the most when it's in the stand, rather than when it's on the road.

135mm not to acomadate the 11 speed cassette so much as to accomodate the DISC brake mounts on the hub. Because it's not easy enough to skid with caliper brakes.
 

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I'm starting to head anti technology . . . starting? . . . heck I've been there for a long time. A guy come in and gave me a bike . . . Azuki ladies bike with Steel cotter cranks . . . but it have a set of pristine Dia-compe center pull brakes . . . They are going to go on the road bike I'm building just to piss people off. All the braking performance you need comes from a clean set of rims and good clean brake shoes.
 

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CurbDestroyer said:
I'm starting to head anti technology . . . starting? . . . heck I've been there for a long time. A guy come in and gave me a bike . . . Azuki ladies bike with Steel cotter cranks . . . but it have a set of pristine Dia-compe center pull brakes . . . They are going to go on the road bike I'm building just to piss people off. All the braking performance you need comes from a clean set of rims and good clean brake shoes.
I've bounced back and forth from tech-weenie to wool-wearin' rivendellian, but I've kinda ended up in the middle- There's dumb technology (aheadsets) and there's dumb retro stuff (plaid wool bike bags). I love my 17 pound aluminum cyclocross bike and it's STI shifters, but I also love my Serotta with DT shifters...

If I can ever afford to have a frame custom built, I'd love to try and incorporate the best of both worlds...

The result would probably look a lot like my serotta with a few extra braze-ons...
 

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TurboTurtle said:
.
It's never been an issue because you don't adjust them. Why would you?
screwing the adjusters in distributes more weight onto the rear tyre(ie-shorter chainstay length), and screwing them back places more weight on the front- allowing one to fine tune the handling of the bike to your preference, & individual body build.
with verticals, you're stuck with whatever the F/R weight distribution works out to.
 

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caterham said:
screwing the adjusters in distributes more weight onto the rear tyre(ie-shorter chainstay length), and screwing them back places more weight on the front- allowing one to fine tune the handling of the bike to your preference, & individual body build.
with verticals, you're stuck with whatever the F/R weight distribution works out to.


do you do that? how much difference does it make? and can you notice it? would the avg joe noob notice it?
 
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