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If conclusive evidence clearly showed the Armstrong doped, would you be surprised.

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 3.3%
  • No

    Votes: 75 82.4%
  • Indifferent

    Votes: 13 14.3%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With all the stories circulating about Armstrong, his connections with Michelle Ferrari, and a couple former teammates who were caught, would you be shocked if conclusive evidence came out against Armstrong using EPO and other performance enhancing drugs?
 

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I wouldn't be shocked because it already has. Just because l'Equipe's evidence wouldn't hold up in criminal court doesn't mean it's not pretty conclusive. I think it would hold up in civil court hence no LA lawsuit over it.
 

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Honestly, I would be absolutely shocked if it turns out that he DIDN'T dope.

I mean, all these guys are doped to the gills and somehow Armstrong beats them all while staying clean?

Yeah, right. Sorry, I don't believe it.
 

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I'm sure they are all doping but I don't think it wise to throw out such an important concept as due process. Frankly I don't care if they dope anymore. It's only a matter of a few years before we have to take dope to compete our everyday lives too. Welcome to the post-humanist world.
 

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while this is an interesting posting

I have some issues with some of the thoughts
a) Convicting LA based on his 'ex -teammates' getting caught. This again begs the ole 6 degrees of LA game. Blaming LA for Tyler, Roberto,etcs... doping busts after they had left Postal is really grasping. First you cannot convict someone on what another person did. Second you cannot convict someone even by proximity when person was no longer involved with them. Imagine if your ex got busted for say dope dealing. They got busted 3 years after you broke up after they started hanging out with some unsavory characters. Is it right to infer you were a dope dealer too? I think not.
b) Terzo, nothing in the L'Equipe article would hold up anywhere. there is no science to it, there were no controls, no lab regulations and no controlling of the tested substances to prevent contamination. the findings (if you read the review) are worthless, completely. As far as that being the reason LA hasn't gone civil, doubtful. He's already (with the independent findings) won the PR war. He doesn't need the $ or the time, emotional commitment to go to trial. He's already been cleared, the doping test completely leveled, his legacy most likely permanently intact. All he has to gain is a published apology by L'Equipe which to sue to get would
a) make him look petty (not good on the PR front)
b) make it look like L'Equipe's opinion matters to him (again a PR mistake)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I never convicted Armstrong of being guilty because his former teammates were caught, but I do find it interesting that riders in the Armstrong circle have been caught in the past. Of course this doesn't make him guilty, but it does raise an eyelid.
 

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wrong again

the riders weren't 'in his circle'
Tyler had already transferred from 2 different squads CSC and Phonak
Heras had been with LS for 2-3 years.
so lets look at those 2 what did they have in common?
riding with Lance as a team mate
leaving to pursue their own ambitions
getting involved with some characters (Saiz, Fuentes)
having good individual results
getting popped for doping

now if you look at the above timeline, my guess is the doping issues had more to do with their individual career paths than it did with their association with Postal. Funny, Postal/Discovery is yet to have 'the big bust' which you could say means they are better at doping, but if they were better at doping Roberto and Tyler would have taken that knowledge with them and thus still not have been detected.

so it only raises an eyelid if you are an "I'll attach this to LA if it kills me type"

I'm not saying LA didn't dope. I'm saying talk about dopers who've been caught or are about to or have been implicated. making connections to ANY other rider is conjecture, heresay ergo garbage.
 

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atpjunkie said:
the riders weren't 'in his circle'
Tyler had already transferred from 2 different squads CSC and Phonak
Heras had been with LS for 2-3 years.
so lets look at those 2 what did they have in common?
riding with Lance as a team mate
leaving to pursue their own ambitions
getting involved with some characters (Saiz, Fuentes)
having good individual results
getting popped for doping

now if you look at the above timeline, my guess is the doping issues had more to do with their individual career paths than it did with their association with Postal. Funny, Postal/Discovery is yet to have 'the big bust' which you could say means they are better at doping, but if they were better at doping Roberto and Tyler would have taken that knowledge with them and thus still not have been detected.

so it only raises an eyelid if you are an "I'll attach this to LA if it kills me type"

I'm not saying LA didn't dope. I'm saying talk about dopers who've been caught or are about to or have been implicated. making connections to ANY other rider is conjecture, heresay ergo garbage.

I couldn't agree more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
atpjunkie said:
the riders weren't 'in his circle'
Tyler had already transferred from 2 different squads CSC and Phonak
Heras had been with LS for 2-3 years.
so lets look at those 2 what did they have in common?
riding with Lance as a team mate
leaving to pursue their own ambitions
getting involved with some characters (Saiz, Fuentes)
having good individual results
getting popped for doping

now if you look at the above timeline, my guess is the doping issues had more to do with their individual career paths than it did with their association with Postal. Funny, Postal/Discovery is yet to have 'the big bust' which you could say means they are better at doping, but if they were better at doping Roberto and Tyler would have taken that knowledge with them and thus still not have been detected.

so it only raises an eyelid if you are an "I'll attach this to LA if it kills me type"

I'm not saying LA didn't dope. I'm saying talk about dopers who've been caught or are about to or have been implicated. making connections to ANY other rider is conjecture, heresay ergo garbage.
I use the term circle liberally here. These riders were at one time associated with Armstrong. In terms of Heras, one could argue that his performance dwindled somewhat after leaving Postal. Granted he was good in the Vuelta, but he never rode the Tour as well. I know some of this has to do with teams, but it's interesting that I don't think he was as good of a rider when he did get caught.
 
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